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Discussion Starter #1
I was pondering if the new alloy motor in the Giulietta QV could be put into a 105.

I’ve tried looking around for someone that has thought about it before but I can’t find anything. Is there something fundamental that I have missed?

Apart from the gearbox issue, does anyone know if this could be possible without cutting the crossmember in the engine bay?

Any advice or knowledge on this would be appreciated.


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I was pondering if the new alloy motor in the Giulietta QV could be put into a 105.

I’ve tried looking around for someone that has thought about it before but I can’t find anything. Is there something fundamental that I have missed?

Apart from the gearbox issue, does anyone know if this could be possible without cutting the crossmember in the engine bay?

Any advice or knowledge on this would be appreciated.
Where are you?

Best gearbox to use would be out of the NC MX5, or the current Arbath Spider (same box), if you have access to wrecks. I imagine a change of sump (or dry sump) would be required. It’s a relatively tall engine - but an amazing drive, I love mine

The early Giulietta QV engine is identical, just not an alloy block

* considering this myself :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Where are you?

Best gearbox to use would be out of the NC MX5, or the current Arbath Spider (same box), if you have access to wrecks. I imagine a change of sump (or dry sump) would be required. It’s a relatively tall engine - but an amazing drive, I love mine

The early Giulietta QV engine is identical, just not an alloy block

* considering this myself :wink2:


I’m in Brisbane, Australia.

Thanks for the gearbox suggestion, are they a relativity easy fit to the back of these motors?

I’ll have to measure this motor up then for height. I wonder if it’s possible to cut the sump and move the well and modify the pickups...

This is getting outside of my understanding of these motors.


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The Mazda gearbox is what FIAT/Arbath use.
You will need to sort out a bellhousing

A lot of stuff really

To my knowledge it’s not been done (yet).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Because racecar...
But seriously, I want more power, and spending 20K on an NA twinspark for only 220 hp seems a bit silly.

I could pick up a salvage 2014 Giulietta qv for 5K spend another 10K on gearbox, ECU and bellhousing and other bits. And get 240hp before I even tune it.

So do you have anything constructive to say?
 

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Because racecar...
But seriously, I want more power, and spending 20K on an NA twinspark for only 220 hp seems a bit silly.

I could pick up a salvage 2014 Giulietta qv for 5K spend another 10K on gearbox, ECU and bellhousing and other bits. And get 240hp before I even tune it.

So do you have anything constructive to say?
Biggest issue with swaps from newer engines is usually the electronics. Newer motors tend to rely on a lot more complex software. For example, if you just plug in the ECU to the motor and it doesn't see the steering angle sensor it expects, it may cause all sorts of strange symptoms or even a limp mode. Especially for direct injection motors, even running on a stand-alone can be difficult if there isn't already a solution.

So the first thing I'd find out is if there is a stand alone solution for that motor (Haltch/Motec/Megasquirt, etc.). The other issue is that the Giulietta is a transverse FWD platform, and the 105 is a longitudinal RWD vehicle. Hard to know what headaches that might cause, but they could be significant. You probably won't be able to use the gearbox, which means You might actually have an easier time using the motor from a Giulia if you can find one for a reasonable price given that it's designed for longitudinal RWD duty.

Another option is to just turbocharge a Nord or Twinspark. No swap headaches that way.
 

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Ciao,

It amazes me why we keep striving for more power when the best fun on the track are in the corners!
These 105’s when set up properly will keep up and are faster than most cars in the corners, sideways and all...
I prefer to let the more powerful cars blow me off in the straights and then give them absolute curry in the corners. Nothing better than seeing their white eye balls in the mirror in complete panic mode as they feel they’re going too slow😎
These cars are great fun on the corners, but why not have fun on the straights too? Plus, power over steer is always a hoot.

There is also a practical problem if you are running these cars on the track outside of a vintage race. Most trackday organizations do a point-by on the straight passing rule. It can be hard to get a high HP car to give you a point by to pass on the straight even if you are riding them on every corner when you don’t have any passing power.
 

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There is also a practical problem if you are running these cars on the track outside of a vintage race. Most trackday organizations do a point-by on the straight passing rule. It can be hard to get a high HP car to give you a point by to pass on the straight even if you are riding them on every corner when you don’t have any passing power.
This is a little off topic but “point-by” isn’t really relevant in Australia. Most track events are what I believe Americans call open passing. With 30 odd years doing race director / clerk of course type jobs there I can say we had more issues when we did ask for people to wave cars by. Window nets kind of forced the issue anyway.

Back on topic - a call to Joe Benica may be worthwhile given his experience with 105’s and with after market management systems. They’ve certainly built several similarly radical conversions.
 

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<SNIP>

The other issue is that the Giulietta is a transverse FWD platform, and the 105 is a longitudinal RWD vehicle. Hard to know what headaches that might cause, but they could be significant. You probably won't be able to use the gearbox, which means

</SNIP>

Hence the reference to the Mazda Gearbox in my post. It is fitted to the Fiat Arbath Spider, which uses these (same) engines in a longitudinal chassis. Hella job, but there is already a worked longitudal solution by FPT which could perhaps be adapted to the 105 chassis.

Re the ECU’s.. you raise good points. However, it has been noted by a few people in Aust. that track the Giulietta QV, that you can disable the ABS/traction controls etc without putting the donk in limp mode. So I’m sure all the stuff could be catered from too (would just be bloody difficult and no doubt easier to use another ECU as you say).

As to why a person might want to do it... well, why not.
I’d do it just for daily driving - the GQV is a completely under rated car by the public.
I just drove Brisbane to Port Douglas and back in mine (5K km / week) - easy, fantastic, economical at speed


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Because racecar...
But seriously, I want more power, and spending 20K on an NA twinspark for only 220 hp seems a bit silly.

I could pick up a salvage 2014 Giulietta qv for 5K spend another 10K on gearbox, ECU and bellhousing and other bits. And get 240hp before I even tune it.

So do you have anything constructive to say?
yes I do: imho the 105 chassis is not really fit for turbo power.
If you want more power for little money choose another chassis. I am sure the cost of the mods will exceed the 20K , unless you have ample tecnical skills and the workshop to do it all yourself. But I regret seeing another 105 butchered..
maybe not wat you want to hear, but hey..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
yes I do: imho the 105 chassis is not really fit for turbo power.

If you want more power for little money choose another chassis. I am sure the cost of the mods will exceed the 20K , unless you have ample tecnical skills and the workshop to do it all yourself. But I regret seeing another 105 butchered..

maybe not wat you want to hear, but hey..


I agree veep, I have a workshop and the technical knowledge to not ruin the car.

Everyone has their own idea on what they like to do with their car. Mine is that I want a nice quick little 105. And I’m prepared to spend money, but I also don’t want to overspend if there is a smarter alternative.

A modern boosted engine at 240hp would be plenty powerful enough, and yes, all aspects of this car will be addressed in the build, Chassis, running gear, suspension, breaking system.

Hence why I’m asking if anyone has any technical advice regarding this motor and if this conversion is being attempted by anyone else.

Your car looks very nice by the way
 

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ok, gearbox: 105 box will not survive the torque from turbo , maybe if you stuck with 240hp. But I do not think you will..
Considering the torque the final drive ratio needs to be longer: from automatic 105. not many around of those.
Or just put in a independent rear suspension with diff from another source. while you are at it.

I wonder if its not more easy to put a Nord turbo in, or maybe even a compressor , no turbo. (I have seen a couple of projects in that line, with at least one of them gone of the road and written off due to lack of grip with turbo coming in)

thanks on the compliment. Is a 213 hp TS (calculated with 15% loss in drive train, I am told that that is way to low so we are talking 220+).
 

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ok, gearbox: 105 box will not survive the torque from turbo , maybe if you stuck with 240hp. But I do not think you will..
Considering the torque the final drive ratio needs to be longer: from automatic 105. not many around of those.
Or just put in a independent rear suspension with diff from another source. while you are at it.


FPT has a bellhousing in current parts (ePER) which bolts these engine (series) to the aforementioned Mazda box - they use this already in the Arbath Spider (longitudinally)


(I give up)

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ok, make it a dry sump and you skip a lot of problems for that part of the engine and the space available. sorry, gearbox was allready a solution for. didnt take time to read back.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Biggest issue with swaps from newer engines is usually the electronics. Newer motors tend to rely on a lot more complex software.

Yes agreed, NA Autosport say if I bring in the running Giulietta qv in, they can plug in and scrape the engine management specs (all engines can be different) and then input into a MoTeC ecu to run the motor.

This seems to be a possible way to loose all the bits of the original engine management system that I don’t want.

I will be discussing this more with them shortly.
 

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Because racecar...
But seriously, I want more power, and spending 20K on an NA twinspark for only 220 hp seems a bit silly.

I could pick up a salvage 2014 Giulietta qv for 5K spend another 10K on gearbox, ECU and bellhousing and other bits. And get 240hp before I even tune it.

So do you have anything constructive to say?
yes I do: imho the 105 chassis is not really fit for turbo power.
If you want more power for little money choose another chassis. I am sure the cost of the mods will exceed the 20K , unless you have ample tecnical skills and the workshop to do it all yourself. But I regret seeing another 105 butchered..
maybe not wat you want to hear, but hey..
I submit that the vast majority of 105s have been lost to rot and neglect. The number that have been hot-rodded is comparatively quite small, and the vast majority could be returned to stock far easier than a rusted out one could be brought to life.
 
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