Burman Box rebuild: high temp seals & grease - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By nunki
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-23-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 399
Burman Box rebuild: high temp seals & grease

Hello,

I thought I'd post about results to date on a couple of experiments I been running over the last 2.5 years with the steering boxes in two LHD (115.01) GTV that we use as daily drivers in our family.

I rebuilt one box using instructions giving in posts to this forum. This thread was most helpful.

It was noted that the lower oil seals that I had bought in the past from IAP then later Centerline would always start leaking after a few years in a box in a car, Those two or so years equated to maybe 14K miles of driving. This got me to wondering if maybe the seals being sold by these vendors wasn't suitable for the environment. I contacted Parker (see image) to find that they made a correct size oil seal (28 mm (id) x 40mm (bore) x 7 mm (height) high-temperature seal for this application. I bought one and installed it. Then filled it with the 90W oil that is recommended by Alfa. This box has been in the car for nearly 11K miles and the pitman arm is still dry. The Viton seal is holding tight.

The second car I didn't replace the weeping seal but instead sucked out the Pennrite Steering box grease from the box (the box I have holds 400 ml of lubricant) and replaced it with SHELL GADUS S3 V460D 2. I chose this grease because my nephew, who is heavy equipment mechanic, uses it in the gearboxes and recirculating ball steering system on the heavy equipment that he rebuilds and maintains.

Switching from oil to the grease was done with some trepidation. That is because there are more than a few post on this forum about the damage that can be done to a Burman box when grease is substituted for the recommended oil. But my nephew's 10 years of success using the grease plus a plausible explanation of how grease lubricates the ball bearings in a Burman box gave me some confidence that the damage to the moving components would be from minimal to none.

To wit:

"Greases are formulated by combining a base oil with a thickening agent. They lubricate rolling bearings by bleeding a small amount of oil out of the “reservoir” of the grease thickener and into the raceway. The oil provides the elastohydrodynamic lubricating film needed to reduce friction and wear. Greases can also serve as effective seals to protect bearings from contaminants and moisture. For greater loads, especially where vibration or shock loading is likely, special anti-wear additives can improve grease performance. Likewise, special thickeners and additive packages can augment a greases natural resistance to wash-out by water or salt-water spray. Thickeners can also be processed to reduce the noise-generating characteristics of a grease. Finally, other additives can tailor a grease to specific application needs: PTFE for low-temperature torque, molybdenum disulfide for high loads, special additives to promote electrical conductivity, and specific chemistry for low vapor pressure applications."

So far, so good with this box. We can't decern any changing in the steering dynamics in the car with grease in its steering box (running on "185" 14-inch tires). And after 19K miles the pitman arm on this car has also remained dry.

Again, these results are for LHD GTVs where the lower end of the steering box is warmed to circa 70C by the exhaust pipe.

Bob
Attached Images
  
PSk likes this.

Last edited by nunki; 11-25-2017 at 09:20 PM.
nunki is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-23-2017, 04:50 PM
Registered User
 
Schuey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 317
Garage
That's one of the best posts on the BB. Thanks for the help!

''Aerodynamics is for people who can't build engines"- Enzo Ferrari
"Back in my day, tires were skinny and the drivers were fat"- Fangio
Schuey is online now  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 04:41 PM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
Great post indeed! I believe this is the seal mentioned? Where did you buy - a local cash and carry seal distributor?

https://ph.parker.com/us/en/high-pre...-hp/15409-5066

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting
r-mm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 399
In 2019 I'm using the ones in the attached photos purchased from the site listed on the bag
Attached Images
 
nunki is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-24-2019, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 399
The SKU is OSVDL28407
Attached Images
 
nunki is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 06:07 AM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
Thank you! Did you replace the shaft seal on the input side as well? (am I wrong in remembering a shaft seal in that location? maybe unique to the UJ cars?)

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting
r-mm is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 01:50 PM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
Verified that there is a shaft seal on the input side, 22/35/6
This one doesn't seem to be available in viton so I'll replace it with Buna.

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting
r-mm is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 03:25 AM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
Burman Box rebuild: high temp seals & grease

Looking closer at the input and output shafts on my box, both have light pitting at the sealing surface even after polishing. I sorted thru several boxes to find parts without pitting on the bearing surface. I think ill give the Shell Gladus grease a shot. Unless there is another product thats popped up since which may be more suited? I had Spirax in the box before I removed it for a reseal.

I’m interested to hear how you ended up with that particular flavor of Gadus from shell. I came upon this product guide which seems to recommend S2 V220 00 for enclosed gears, but I supposed ‘roller bearings’ may be the more relevant metric? The NLGI of the grease you selected seems to be 2 which is thicker than the 00 Penrtite you were replacing - maybe this was your metric? The recommendation from your nephew likely goes a long way... http://rkpl.com.bd/wp-content/upload...-Greases-1.pdf

This table makes me laugh...
Name:  IMG_6560.jpg
Views: 53
Size:  127.5 KB

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting

Last edited by r-mm; 05-28-2019 at 05:55 AM.
r-mm is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 10:51 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 6,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by r-mm View Post
Verified that there is a shaft seal on the input side, 22/35/6
This one doesn't seem to be available in viton so I'll replace it with Buna.
there is an ebay seller (IL) that has them 66 bucks for 10 pieces
#202685456375

in europe, otoh, no problem

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome