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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-30-2016, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Troubleshooting Advice Wanted

I have noticed I need subtle steering correction when I accelerate hard and then opposite correction when lifting off gas and a little more correction when braking. Acceleration causes the car to veer to the left slightly and I automatically correct by turning wheel right. Lifting off the gas, the car veers to right and I correct by steering to the left. I am only talking about a degree or 2 from a centered steering wheel, hard braking may result in an extra degree or so of additional correction.
I have witnessed this on other Alfas and other solid rear axle cars. Is this common on solid axle cars due to torque reaction? On acceleration the front of car body lifts and rear of car lowers also the left side lifts and the right side lowers. So the combined effect is the LF corner lifts and the RR sags other corners stay about the same level.
I should test what happens if I just use the parking brake?
Fairly low miles on the new front inner A arm bushings, new rear control arm bushings and pair of new conical t bar bushes, plus brand new poly thrust washers at t bar to body bushes. Had a look at my castor arm bushes they look surprisingly good but do flex a bit when pried at.
I posted the same Questions in the GT section but looking for more responses here.

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 08:41 AM
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So it steers differently on the gas and off? Typically that means the rear end is steering under power. I'd look at the trailing arm bushings for wear.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 08:42 AM
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Oh, I see you have new control arm bushings. Hmm. Is the T arm OK? Everything torqued?
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Just checked the tightness of trailing arm bolts, seems ok. Not something I am likely to forget (proper torquing).

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Video of left rear wheel in action on the road.

Left rear wheel in video.


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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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2nd video

Looks like a well located rear axle?


http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html

Last edited by brad fischer; 06-13-2016 at 03:08 AM.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 04:22 PM
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Brad,
I would be inclined to suspect a front suspension toe pattern issue, in which the right and left toe angles do not change equally as the suspension moves vertically.
Unfortunately, it is not easy to diagnose this without the ability to vertically load and unload the front end on a wheel alignment rack.
As a first check, carefully inspect all the steering components. Is the center link dead level in the car? Are the left and right tie rods equal in length stud to stud?Is there any sign of distortion and straightening on steering arms, idler arm, or steering gear drop arm?
Is the vehicle within spec for suspension height, or if it has been lowered are the heights equal side to side?
Basically, you are looking for anything that is unsymmetrical side to side in the steering or suspension systems.

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-13-2016, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
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Returned video to original format.

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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I thought I would see something with the left rear wheel moving forward on acel and rearward on decel. Maybe it is to small to see or something funny with right front. Here is RF video looking forward.
For some of this video I held the wheel straight and gassed and released in 2nd or 3rd, you can see the car self steer. Watch the 35 sec to 55 sec on video.
I am not sure I am learning any thing with these videos other than how to operate the camera and upload to U tube and download to ABB.

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 11:10 AM
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Whenever I've had this symptom, it has been a rear trailing arm bushing. You generally cannot see the failure with the arm bolted in place. It doesn't take much for the rear axle to move forward or rearward under acceleration, and as it is likely to be one bushing that failed before the other, this introduces steering one way under acceleration, and the other on deceleration. It's a bit of a nuisance, but if your car has enough age and miles on it, just drop the two rear arms and replace the bushings. Not an easy job, but ultimately worth doing.

Don P
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Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-14-2016, 11:14 AM
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I would bet that your caster angles are different. Load/unload front (i.e. decel/accel) with different caster angles would affect toe and correspondent "gain" for steering angle. A good alignment tech will be able to read the static values for less than 30 minutes labor, and a better alignment tech will be able to diagnose and correct the problem quickly.

The tech I send my transaxle cars to is quite good. I observe him bouncing the car rather aggressively to check dynamic (as best as possible) values while another tech watches the values from the display on the laser rack. I had a similar issue (on/off throttle steering inconsistency) that was corrected with careful front end adjustment. Bring some ballast if you want the alignment done with your weight in the driver seat.
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Tried looking for lower ball joint movement, awkward with wheel on. Found a bill for rear trailing arm and conical T bar bushings. Year 2000 only 11000 miles since then, wouldn't think they would be worn out. Found some spare used trailing arms in garage likely 46 years old, look dry but doubt they would even allow any rear steer. The dilemma continues.

If I had different castor angles then the car would pull at cruise, wheel with more castor would pull to center of car.

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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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I likely should concentrate on suspension items not replaced by myself since I bought it in 1984 and 56000 miles ago. Front upper control arm (inner bush, castor bush, upper ball joint) and lower ball joint have been untouched by me. I should put a dial indicator on the ball joints and check.

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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 11:12 AM
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I too would look at the rear trailing arm bushings, you can't see anything by looking at them, but apply a load to them by means of a pry bar and if there is substantial visual movement I'd replace them.
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Video of LR trailing arm front bushing. There is movement of arm back and forth on accel, decel and brake. Now I need to see if right side is the same or substantially less. Hopeful I have found it, but wonder if the bushings I put in 16 years ago were crap or is this what to expect from rubber? Maybe go poly in this location? Pros vs cons?

The 1 minute mark and onward is the best.


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