89 Spider No Spark - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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89 Spider No Spark

Just reinstalled the removed engine for clutch replacement. Took them out together. It went very smoothly. So of course something has to bite me! Any ideas or past experiences with this would be appreciated. Battery is fully charged, double checked the four ground connectors at the rear of the engine. Iím sure I missed something. It ran well before.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 08:36 AM
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Just reinstalled the removed engine for clutch replacement. Took them out together. It went very smoothly. So of course something has to bite me! Any ideas or past experiences with this would be appreciated. Battery is fully charged, double checked the four ground connectors at the rear of the engine. Iím sure I missed something. It ran well before.
Guess No. 1 -- Hooked up the two flywheel sensors to the wrong connectors?
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'85 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Ti Sport
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 09:03 AM
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No spark

Or if you removed the flywheel and didn`t bolt it up at the correct position on the crank hub. The bolt hole for the TDC location has a recessed hole about 5mm deep before thread starts. The flywheel has a groove mark for the TDC position

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RJR Racing

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Fly wheel sensor connectors are tagged, flywheel didn’t come off. Checking the resistance of the two flywheel sensors, they’re right in the middle of the range. Still playing with it.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 01:20 PM
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if you removed engine, I'd check coil wires have been put back correct:
green/blacks on the positive
everything else (whites, white/black, yellow) on the negative side.

Coil HT lead firmly pressed in? Also into dizzy?

Have you 12 volts at the coil with IGN on?

Cranking voltage about 11V? (certainly not below 10,5V) - check, no matter if battery is full charged or not.

Does Tacho flicker when cranking (Tachymetric signal)?

no flickering then I'd check the relays (Drive and Main) near the ECU under the parcel shelf.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-23-2019, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Good leads for tomorrow’s journey. The tach does not jump, I noticed that today. I fixed a broken wire on the tach sensor harness too but haven’t tried to start it again. I’ve been going through thr troubleshooting tree in the manual, it’s nicely detailed.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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I’ve gone through the troubleshooting guide in the manual, all checks well. So, where do I get a used but known good ignition ECU? I’m afraid of what that would cost! So much for a free car. Better yet does anyone know of a shop that can test my control to confirm it’s the problem?

87 & 89 Spider

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 12:50 PM
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I’ve gone through the troubleshooting guide in the manual, all checks well. So, where do I get a used but known good ignition ECU? I’m afraid of what that would cost! So much for a free car. Better yet does anyone know of a shop that can test my control to confirm it’s the problem?
That's a pretty dramatic step, given that the ECUs rarely fail. Have you confirmed that it is a no-spark condition (as opposed to a no fuel condition)? (I realize that it is in the title of your post, but it sounds like you are running out of reasons not to have spark).

Rich

'85 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Ti Sport

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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I’m cranking with the plugs out so I can see the spark, or lack of. I have the plugs connected to the wires laying on top of the engine. I smell fuel too. I can hear the pump come on for a second too. I would love to not purchase one of these. On some level I don’t believe that’s the problem but after testing each component and ringing out almost every wire and connector... I’ll be playing around with it for a few more days I suspect the big connector that attaches to the ECU has a bad socket in position 19, which is a ground location. I would love to send it to someone with a similar model and have them try it out.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 03:47 PM
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Does your '87 Spider run? It should have the same ECU as your '89 unless you modified the fuel/ignition systems.

Rich

'85 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Ti Sport
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 01:18 AM
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Does your '87 Spider run? It should have the same ECU as your '89 unless you modified the fuel/ignition systems.
exactly, both cars are pretty much identical.

Farina, you haven't answered my question if there is 12V at the coil? (Put a voltmeter between one of the small coil connections and a good ground...you should read near on full battery voltage, 12.6V)

Nor whether there is 11V min whilst cranking the starter? (Voltmeter between the battery poles and read it whilst cranking)

These are basics you need to check before ripping parts off the car

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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Last winter I sold the 87, along with the ECU!, to downsize to a condo. What timing! I’m kicking myself for not holding on to it. There’s an Alfa shop near where I work I’m going to bring the ECU to him maybe he can pop it into a known running car for troubleshooting. This same part number was used for several years. I’ve also noticed that pin 19 is damaged, the large plug that connects to the ECU, , pushed back in its slot too. So I’m also looking for a replacement connector, I’m sure that’ll be an easy find!

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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I check the battery voltage at the battery 13.5, at the coil 12.9, when cranking 12.3.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 05:39 AM
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Iíve also noticed that pin 19 is damaged, the large plug that connects to the ECU, , pushed back in its slot too. So Iím also looking for a replacement connector, Iím sure thatíll be an easy find!
Check your wiring diagram before assuming this is a problem. On papajam's wiring diagram for 86 Spiders, pin 19 of the Fuel ECU is not used, and pin 19 of the Ignition ECU is a ground.

Rich

'85 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Ti Sport
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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I just threaded a handful of copper wire strands down the sock of pin 19, ign ECM and I got spark, nice and blue on all four plugs!
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