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post #46 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 08:45 AM
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I know

One of the reasons people don't like the handling and rides as much of these later series 4 cars is because they spoiled it by fitting 195/60R15 instead of 14" wheels with thinner tyres.

Which is why when you go and test drive a modern car on standard wheels the ride is lovely, then when you spec up you own car, with much taller alloy wheels with low fat tyres, it doesn't ride as well as it did in the test drive.

If you took a series 4 Spider, throw away the fat 15" wheels and drive it on a 165R14 cinturato or XAS; or a period 185/70R14 CN36 or XAS you will find it far more pleasant and fun to drive.

It is not paying through the nose. it is a fair price for a quality obsure tyre from a top manufacturer.

P.S. Alfaloco. I like your picture. i am going to the Munich beer festival later this year.
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post #47 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:28 AM
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Hi

Can i suggest that you stick with my products.

it seems odd to me that you have the perfect tyres available for your cars, made by the worlds best tyre manufacturers. The tyres that Alfa themselves chose to fit to their cars (50 years ago).
......

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post #48 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:39 AM
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that is all a bit paranoid, conspiracy theory stuff.

the best tyres for a 50 year old chassis are ones that are suited to that chassis design.

We sell the best tyres for classic cars. that is what we do. they aren't my products. they are made by Pirelli and Michelin. they are the best tyre manufactutrers. they also make the best classic car tyres, which is why we sell them.
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post #49 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:53 AM
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I know, I know, I'm just razzing you.

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post #50 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:54 AM
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P.S. Alfaloco. I like your picture. i am going to the Munich beer festival later this year.
Can I stow away, perchance?? I know just enough German to order my own kalt bier, danke

I get what you're saying about wheel/tire upgrades, some of which can downgrade the vehicle's comfort and forgiveness, for sure. Tires with an aspect ratio of 35 are just not going to ride as compliantly as the old 70 series, period. As for me, I'm old enough to clearly recall what it was like driving on the CN54, the CN36 and the Michelins also. There's no way in the world I would back-date my S4 Spider to tires like that, for any reason. Why? Because if I'm on a road trip in that car, and the heavens open up in a deluge, I want all the modern tire technology and design under me I can get. Now...if I still had my old Giulietta Sprint??? Absolutely yes-- I would have the 155 series 15 inch tires on it, as original, maybe 165mm but no wider. Maybe a modern Vredestein or a Pirelli replica, for all the reasons you describe. I would likely be trailering that car, anyway, on a road trip.
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post #51 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:07 AM
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Tire Manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by lgbalfa View Post
Anyone familiar with Nokian tires from Finland?

I know that they are more know for their winter tires, but are now selling all-season tires in the US.

Thanks


I have them on my tractor, I would not put them on my Alfa


1993 Spider Veloce
2016 4c Coupe
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post #52 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougal
Hi

Can i suggest that you stick with my products.

it seems odd to me that you have the perfect tyres available for your cars, made by the worlds best tyre manufacturers. The tyres that Alfa themselves chose to fit to their cars (50 years ago).
You do have a point (and I know you're just razzing him) but the 185/70r14 Cinturatos I bought from Longstone a couple of months ago are bloody brilliant! I figured they'd be good but I'm amazed at how transformative they are. Somehow they've cut steering wheel effort required at parking speeds easily by half, but still grip like crazy through the corners when driven hard - easily the grippiest tire I've had on the car in 15 years. Dougal is absolutely right about rear grip - the way I have the car setup (Centerline springs, Koni reds and stock swaybars) the car is pretty much neutral at the limit. Way more stable and less nervous on the canyon roads around here. I do sorta miss the lurid slides I could provoke on the Falkens I just replaced but it's way more fun in the canyons now where you just can't risk going off the road (and off a cliff, down a mountain and into a creek).

People with phonedials are in a pickle here - as mentioned, only economy tires available from the major tire outlets and no "classic" option. I feel for you.

Chris

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post #53 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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I have them on my tractor, I would not put them on my Alfa

1993 Spider Veloce
2016 4c Coupe
Just thought about Nokian as they are European (Finland).

Thanks

1992 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia, 2018 Volkswagen Tiguan SEL Premium
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post #54 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:09 AM
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I get what you're saying about wheel/tire upgrades, some of which can downgrade the vehicle's comfort and forgiveness, for sure. Tires with an aspect ratio of 35 are just not going to ride as compliantly as the old 70 series, period. As for me, I'm old enough to clearly recall what it was like driving on the CN54, the CN36 and the Michelins also. There's no way in the world I would back-date my S4 Spider to tires like that, for any reason.
You are not back dating from the position of compound or build quality. they will be better than pretty much any tyre manufacturer. these tyres are from Pirelli and Michelin.

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Originally Posted by alfaloco View Post
Why?
the why is because on your car 185/70R14 Cinturato CN36 is more suited to the chassis of your car and will handle and ride better.

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Originally Posted by alfaloco View Post
Because if I'm on a road trip in that car, and the heavens open up in a deluge, I want all the modern tire technology and design under me I can get.
Why? your car will perform better in the wet with a 185/70VR14 Cinturato CN36 than it will on a modern tyre of the size 195/60R14.

Maybe if there was a period tyre available in that size made by one of the best brands, it might be as good. But i don't believe there is one?

A modern design tyre caracss with a fatter foot print will not give you as good wet handling as the CN36 fitted to a light weight rear wheel drive sports car with chassis and suspention from that period. This is a Pirelli, not some cheap rubbish. these are up to date modern rubber compounds that dramatically improve the performance in the wet, from what it used to be in the day. However this compound is presented to the road on a carcass that handles well with your spider.

Your modern car has heeps of adverse camber, stiffer self leveling clever suspension and the front axle has a hole heep of caster over come by clever powersteering. It is the combination of all these features on your modern car that make them able to benefit from the extra grip of a modern low profile tyre with its wide square foot print.

yet at the same time it is all those features that take away the charisma and charm of the modern car.

Maybe; in the wet, importantly in straight line braking a fatter tyre might be better, but only if the compounds are up to the quality of the Pirelli CN36, which i very much doubt.

In the corners in the wet, in your car, CN36 any day of the week.

In a modern car, then a modern tyre would be better. I'm not trying sell you CN36 for your modern Mercedes. Horese for courses.

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Originally Posted by alfaloco View Post
Now...if I still had my old Giulietta Sprint??? Absolutely yes-- I would have the 155 series 15 inch tires on it, as original, maybe 165mm but no wider. Maybe a modern Vredestein or a Pirelli replica, for all the reasons you describe. I would likely be trailering that car, anyway, on a road trip.
Obviously it would be the Pirelli https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pir...ollezione.html It is a much better tyre. the Pirelli is a genuine period tyre. The Vredestein aren't bad, but they don't look anything like a classic Alfa tyre. and they are not. you would only buy them if they were a load cheaper.
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post #55 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:20 AM
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Dougal, I got to hand it to you... you present a terrific sales pitch, sir!

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post #56 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:52 AM
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Well Alfaloco that is because i live and breath classic cars.

this weekend i am racing my Frazer Nash
at Brands hatch with the VSCC.

Then in a couple of weeks i am racing my Lotus Elite
at Goodwood (if you watch thiis film start 9 minnutes in)

I also have a road Elite that i drive on Cinturato, so i know how fabulous they are on the road. i raced that car once at Snetterton in the wet, against much much faster Elites on racing tyres. It was hosing down rain. i drove round the outside of them in the corners, and they blew me into the weeds on the straights. They truly are lovely tyres.
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post #57 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 08:11 AM
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Original profile tires on 101 and 105 Alfas.
For sure!
I bought my first Alfa, a 101 Spider in 1965 and as I recall went through tires too quickly. CN 36s.
Then, when I bought the very good 62 Spider in 2006 I used Vred Classic Sprints 155/80/15 on alloy wheel. Plus Koni Reds and new but close to standard springs. A little stiffer bar.
And the handling was a delight on any road surface and any road condition.
Marine Drive on the way to UBC in Vancouver is 4-lane blvd and most of the traffic runs at 90k.
The slow lane surface is always rough due to the heavy construction trucks.
The Spider rides very comfortably on the rough, but my DD is a BMW 535 i Touring Wagon.Very comfortable but the 50 ratio tires are too harsh for the rough pavement.
To get back the Vreds--the adhesion is some 40 percent better--wet or dry--than the best tires in the 1960s. Gordon Raymond says that the new tires are as good as race tires back in the day.
So there is no need to go to lower-profile tires on 101 or 105 Alfas.

Bob,
Avatar is the 68 Super, bought new.
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post #58 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 08:39 AM
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Dougal, better you than me out there on that snow! At my station in life, I am somewhat into comfort. And the Elite?? Ever since I was a pre-shaver kid, I always loved the Lotus Elite! Such lovely lines... I assume it has the Coventry Climax motor? And yes-- what a handler! I very much enjoyed the video.

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post #59 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 08:55 AM
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Dougal, better you than me out there on that snow! At my station in life, I am somewhat into comfort. And the Elite?? Ever since I was a pre-shaver kid, I always loved the Lotus Elite! Such lovely lines... I assume it has the Coventry Climax motor? And yes-- what a handler! I very much enjoyed the video.
to be fair i am a bit of a tart. i just think the Lotus Elite is the best looking car post war.

However it was watching them race that truly turned by head. they just go into a corner so fast. And the eliment of a little old English company makeing giant beating cars with such a tiny little Coventry Climax engine revving it's knackers off.
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post #60 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 09:06 AM
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One thing to keep in mind is that the Spider came out in 1966 wearing 165r14 tires and didn't really change that much until production ceased in 1994. Yeah, they did stiffen up the chassis a bit over time, but those efforts ceased in the early '80s. But the suspension components never changed. All of the suspension bits on a 1994 are exactly the same as a '71....maybe earlier? As time went on they started marketing the Spider less as a sports car and more as a tourer and made some weird equipment choices in my opinion. My Spider was sold in 1990 with Michelin all-season energy saver tires - hardly an appropriate tire for a sports car. The 15" phonedials came about to make the car more "modern" with a 15" tire - but they didn't make any changes at all to the suspension to go along with them.

I do see that if your car came with the 15" wheels and 195/60-14 tires that you want to stick with that. I stuck with 185/70-14 on my car since that's what came on it - but here's no way I'm putting all-season mileage tires on my car even if that was what it was delivered with!! Changing to a 185/70-14 or 165r14 wouldn't be "backdating" the car, it would be putting a more appropriate tire on it. I guarantee that a new set of CN36 Cinturatos is a LOT better than the tires your car was likely delivered with.
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