New to me 1984 Spider Veloce - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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New to me 1984 Spider Veloce

Hi folks. I just got my new old alfa running (sort of). My in-laws wanted to make room in their garage and the car hadn't run since 2000-ish so I took it over.
1. I drained and replaced fuel
2. Borrowed a battery, turned it over, but no spark. Quickly traced to flywheel sensors reading open circuit. Replaced both of those with new ones, and whammo, it turned over and started running for 3-5 seconds...I figured it was running off the CSI and the FI ECU wasn't waking up. The Ignition ECU had to be waking up though, as there was clearly a spark for the engine to get going under CSI.
3. The voltage is lower then 10.5V while cranking. Rather than trace all wires, clean grounds, etc. etc., my quick test was to jump off of my truck. It fired up and I had it idle for 30 minutes or so. Soooooo.....I figure I need to fix the "low voltage problem". There's no rush on my end, so that's a battle for another day.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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(getting my post count up so I can post a link for y'all)

I have Greg Gordon's tune up document and Papajam's schematic. Both have been invaluable.
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Before I did the jump test, I did do the following checks:

Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS): @70F was 2.3kOhm
Flywheel Sensors: 1.1k (both replaced)
Time Temp sensor (TTS): 37 Ohm btwn pins
Cold Start Ignition (CSI): sprays (as I suspected)
Aux Air Valve (AAV): opens and closes (freezer and oven test)

I assumed that because the ignition ICU had to be awake, that the voltage at the FI ECU would be fine too (apparently not).
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Here's 4 gallons of 18 year old fuel
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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I'd love any ideas for top cleaning (lots of white spots) and repair of tears here and there.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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close up of the top.
BTW, right now the plan is to clean things up, getting it running fine, and use it as a summer vacation car. No full-up restorations yet.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 04:32 PM
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Impressive, logical, troubleshooting and good results followed.
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 04:46 PM
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As crazy as it sounds, I would try 3 in 1 oil on the soft top. I cannot recall who suggested this trick, but it worked for me. Always try a small area first.
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 05:14 PM
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Nice work and logical troubleshooting. Thanks for saving another Alfa!
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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A battery is pulled low because of high current and resistance of wires and connectors. Basic Ohms Law stuff.

Two things:

1. I wonder if the starter is working harder than it should because it's been sitting for nearly 20 years, hence drawing more current. Similarly, The engine hasn't turned in nearly 20 years, so I suppose that load is higher too. Any thoughts out there about current loading with the long idle engine and starter?

2. The wire path to the ECUs may be long, but as low(er) current devices, I wouldn't imagine voltage drops across connections and wires to the ECUs would be significant. Curious to know your experiences.

It seems (to me) that the trick is to minimize load, and minimize resistive losses along the starter circuit. What say you?

My interest is to increase the crank voltage.

Thanks!
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930cabman View Post
As crazy as it sounds, I would try 3 in 1 oil on the soft top. I cannot recall who suggested this trick, but it worked for me. Always try a small area first.
Thanks for that tip. I'll ponder and try a small area.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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OK. Phwew, up to ten posts, so here's the link to the idle. It ain't pretty, but neither would I be after a twenty year slumber.
What should I be looking at now?
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 07:33 PM
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Air leaks in intake hoses n dirty plugs.
Low Current draw could be poor engine ground or dirty connectors on major components ie alternator n starter. If old gas in system, maybe injectors are gummy. Could pull n see how they are spraying. Or hop in n blast it up road. May just need to clear out the acorns.
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Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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I'll be getting silicone tube kit from HPSI shorty.

Also inferred today the clutch plate is rusted to the flywheel. I'll try rocking it back and forth in fourth gear to hopefully free it. (BTW, the wheels needed a little persuasion to get moving.)
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm more of a boat person than a car person, and am wondering if anyone has a set-up two batteries (like on boats) - house and start?
I've been reading so much about grounds and battery voltage to ECUs during start, I'm wondering if anyone has added a relay to the ignition and a charge controller or auto-charging relay, with a second battery?
Sounds kind of crazy, but I'm not wild about this >10.5 V while cranking business. Anyone?
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