New to me 1984 Spider Veloce - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 10:15 PM
Registered User
 
SkiBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 371
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorb View Post
I'll be getting silicone tube kit from HPSI shorty.

Also inferred today the clutch plate is rusted to the flywheel. I'll try rocking it back and forth in fourth gear to hopefully free it. (BTW, the wheels needed a little persuasion to get moving.)
you can buy the silicone tubing for a fraction of what HPSI sells it for and you can actually have enough to do more hoses...... around 30 bucks. If you like I will find my hose list and link...
SkiBum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 11:23 PM
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 510
Garage
Again, maybe s good romp will clean off rusty rotors, clutch n pads. N blow off carbon from plugs. Hoses just need to be solid n clamped tight.

Computer needs solid output from alternator to run n start. 10v isn’t cutting it. Check connections, cables n belt. Easier to check w air filter box lid out of the way.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is online now  
post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 12:03 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Norseman50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,456
Garage
The white spots on your top just look like mold to me. I would try washing it with a stiff-bristled scrub brush to get rid of them, but the correct solution is just to replace the top entirely.

Edward
'88 Quad - "Claudia"
Norseman50 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:04 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorb View Post
3. The voltage is lower then 10.5V while cranking. Rather than trace all wires, clean grounds, etc. etc., my quick test was to jump off of my truck. It fired up and I had it idle for 30 minutes or so. Soooooo.....I figure I need to fix the "low voltage problem". There's no rush on my end, so that's a battle for another day.
easy to clean main grounds (forget that twin battery solution!)

clean the grounds, even if they look ok, undo, remove, clean, replace, protect.

The main ground is the negative battery cable bolted to the trunk floor. Remove, sand it clean, replace with some copper grease.
ECU grounds: there is a bundle of several black wires bolted to the rear of the cylinder head, passenger side, again remove, clean replace, protect.
The main copper earth braid wire under the car, transmission>chassis, passenger side: this is a later spider but basically the same thing: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/129079-post2.html

then there is the main 'power' connection block (big red starter wires going to/from it) which is a small black block in the engine compartment, on driver's side inner fender. Check and clean all connections.

when all that is done recheck the crank voltage....you need about 11,0 volts.
grizzly and adowns like this.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 07-20-2019 at 08:07 AM.
spiderserie4 is online now  
post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:22 AM
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 510
Garage
Can also put volt meter to alternator, then check again at battery when running. Read in another thread needs to “flash”? First, not exactly sure what that means think it was to let it run for a bit first before checking.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is online now  
post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:49 PM
Registered User
 
pantera928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Oxford, Ga
Posts: 205
Garage
Check grounds. Roughness may be due to dirty injectors, a bad fuel pressure regulator, vacuum leaks. Easy to figure out but hard to do long distance.
Cruzin performance has cleaned injectors for me on 2 cars that sat up like yours. About $100 to do a set of 4.
Is the clutch stuck on the flywheel or is the slave cylinder frozen? I have seen both.
If it is indeed stuck on the flywheel, pressing the clutch pedal and starting the car should release it. Also, driving it and accelerating and decelerating will do it with the clutch pressed pedal in.
More often, I have seen a frozen slave cylinder. Have someone depress the clutch pedal while you are under the car and watch for slave movement. If the slave is stuck, you can actually bend the clutch pedal and ave to rebend it back.
pantera928 is offline  
post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
doctorb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
I think a smoother idle is bit of a ham sandwich - vacuum hoses, plugs, clean injectors, etc. No real mystery meat yet.

The voltage thing has been vexing. I cleaned all the grounds and the junction box, but it still only fires under CSI. Then I setup the dual battery thing just to verify the voltage issue. I removed the starter wire from the junction box and taped it off. So the trunk battery only powered the starter. I added a second battery, common grounding at the cam cover, and +12V to the junction box, hence the fuse 1-5 rail, ignition switch, etc. During cranking, the voltage at the ECU was a steady 12.5V as one may expect. However, no start - ******

I returned everything to standard configuration and jumped the battery from my Toyota like yesterday. But, unlike yesterday, no start!! Then, for grins, I pulled out and cleaned the in-line fuse near the ECU, and wouldn't you know, the car fired up. It's been starting fine all afternoon under its own battery. Let's see what tomorrow brings. (As an aside, if that does amount to the root cause, I may consider replacing it with a blade fuse. I'm slightly allergic to bullet fuses.)

The slave cylinder is fine. I tried starting in gear with the clutch pedal in, but the clutch didn't release. I'll rock it back and forth when my son gets home.

Thanks everyone.

P.S. The fuel pump moans and groans - I'll post a video that may be informative to y'all. It just sounds a little too squealy to my ear. Let me know it's in the zone of "normal".
doctorb is offline  
post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 02:13 PM
Registered User
 
SkiBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 371
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorb View Post
I think a smoother idle is bit of a ham sandwich - vacuum hoses, plugs, clean injectors, etc. No real mystery meat yet.

The voltage thing has been vexing. I cleaned all the grounds and the junction box, but it still only fires under CSI. Then I setup the dual battery thing just to verify the voltage issue. I removed the starter wire from the junction box and taped it off. So the trunk battery only powered the starter. I added a second battery, common grounding at the cam cover, and +12V to the junction box, hence the fuse 1-5 rail, ignition switch, etc. During cranking, the voltage at the ECU was a steady 12.5V as one may expect. However, no start - ******

I returned everything to standard configuration and jumped the battery from my Toyota like yesterday. But, unlike yesterday, no start!! Then, for grins, I pulled out and cleaned the in-line fuse near the ECU, and wouldn't you know, the car fired up. It's been starting fine all afternoon under its own battery. Let's see what tomorrow brings. (As an aside, if that does amount to the root cause, I may consider replacing it with a blade fuse. I'm slightly allergic to bullet fuses.)

The slave cylinder is fine. I tried starting in gear with the clutch pedal in, but the clutch didn't release. I'll rock it back and forth when my son gets home.

Thanks everyone.

P.S. The fuel pump moans and groans - I'll post a video that may be informative to y'all. It just sounds a little too squealy to my ear. Let me know it's in the zone of "normal".
In tank pump is probably shot or clogged with old fuel and crud.
grizzly likes this.
SkiBum is offline  
post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
doctorb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Interesting point about in-tank pump. I can check that.
Not sure if this video is all helpful, but it captures the pump moaning I mentioned.

doctorb is offline  
post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
doctorb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
I've been noodling through my earlier experiment with the dual batteries and the in-line fuse. I was incorrect to assume the trunk battery only ran the starter. It also powered the main relay (injectors) and the fuel pumps via the drive relay. This doesn't totally explain the it-worked-yesterday-but-not-today phenomenon, however. It does seem that cleaning the in line fuse did something.

Incidentally, my in-line fuse enters the ECU harness/connector and then there's a red wire from the ECU harness to the drive relay (pin 30). This is a little different than Papajam's schematic for a 1984 Spider that shows the in-line fuse directly to the drive relay. I'd like to know what that is about.
doctorb is offline  
post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 05:26 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
sloboy89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,678
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorb View Post
Incidentally, my in-line fuse enters the ECU harness/connector and then there's a red wire from the ECU harness to the drive relay (pin 30). This is a little different than Papajam's schematic for a 1984 Spider that shows the in-line fuse directly to the drive relay. I'd like to know what that is about.
There should be a pink & white wire from pin 87 of the drive relay that goes into a harness and eventually to the inertia switch by the windshield-washer bottle. That switch is designed to turn off the fuel pumps in case of a rollover. Perhaps someone rerouted that wire.

Rich

'85 Spider Veloce
'17 Giulia Ti Sport
sloboy89 is online now  
post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
doctorb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloboy89 View Post
There should be a pink & white wire from pin 87 of the drive relay that goes into a harness and eventually to the inertia switch by the windshield-washer bottle. That switch is designed to turn off the fuel pumps in case of a rollover. Perhaps someone rerouted that wire.
That pink and white wire is present, and the inertia switch is good.
It's as though the in-line fuel pump fuse wire disappears into the ECU connector, and re-emerges to be connected to pin 30 of the drive relay. The ECU boot is clean - I don't see evidence of any hacking.

BTW, I freed the clutch and drove the car back and forth in the driveway - a whole 20 feet. I put the car on blocks, started in 4th, then applied the brakes. Freed up first time without beating it to death. Easy-peasy.

Fun.
doctorb is offline  
post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 01:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Israel
Posts: 42
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to levp
You've got 2 fuel pumps on this model: main pump under the luggage tray near ECU (accessed from under the car) and low pressure in-tank pump. On my car the pumps are noisy only during start up, until they reach working pressure.
Mine 84 has been sitting idle for about 15 years in dry climate (AZ), so I had to replace half of the rubber tubing - fuel lines, brake lines, clutch line. You'll need new brake pads front and rear (don't bother with parking brake shoes). I didn't replace the brake discs but rather gave them a clean with medium grit sandpaper.
I would also remove the oil pan and clean it. Chances are that sludge has separated from oil and your oil pump is sitting in a bath of sludge. Gearbox and rear axle - I would change that oil as well.
levp is offline  
post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 04:01 PM
Registered User
 
edholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2
I used tyre sheen on my crazed Perspex on a race car and on the hood of my Elan - both came up looking like new ! A mate in cleaning products put me onto it - try a small section and see the results .. Ed
edholly is offline  
post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 04:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: seattle'ish
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorb View Post
Hi folks. I just got my new old alfa running (sort of). My in-laws wanted to make room in their garage and the car hadn't run since 2000-ish so I took it over.
1. I drained and replaced fuel
2. Borrowed a battery, turned it over, but no spark. Quickly traced to flywheel sensors reading open circuit. Replaced both of those with new ones, and whammo, it turned over and started running for 3-5 seconds...I figured it was running off the CSI and the FI ECU wasn't waking up. The Ignition ECU had to be waking up though, as there was clearly a spark for the engine to get going under CSI.
3. The voltage is lower then 10.5V while cranking. Rather than trace all wires, clean grounds, etc. etc., my quick test was to jump off of my truck. It fired up and I had it idle for 30 minutes or so. Soooooo.....I figure I need to fix the "low voltage problem". There's no rush on my end, so that's a battle for another day.


congrats!!!

here is our little 84 we bought 2 months ago to share the garage with our GTV6. the day we got it/mid paint/day we got it back.


1981 GTV6 3.0L
sloppyjoe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome