91 S4 not starting, no gas - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By pinshaw
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
91 S4 not starting, no gas

So I changed alternator , car started, dash lights out, changed fuse, got dash lights back. Decided to check fir other fuses n opened back panel w computer. Hit red button , now it won’t start. Thought it was just a test button, but now stuck. Tried a reset by disconnecting ground to battery. Relays click on power, power to coil,but no gas when turning over. Car was running fine before all this started. Wondering if I messed up crank sensor? Way to test? Ideas?

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 02:37 PM
But Mad North-Northwest
Platinum Subscriber
 
Gubi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 9,655
Check the relays in the back panel. One of them has a fuse right behind it that's for power to both fuel pumps and the oxygen sensor. It's possible that blew.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
Gubi is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
Thanks. I’ll check. I did check the 2 fuses on the relays as well as ohms to crank sensor. It checks out.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 02:40 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,045
a clicking relay is not necessarily a working relay.
(Tom, the S4 fuel relay has no fuse...)

you have 4 relays back there:
the red stripe motronic diode relay-
the aux. motronic relay (this has the 15A fuse)-
the VVT relay (this has the 10A fuse)-
and the fuel/lambda relay (this has no fuse, no stripe, no nothing, so easily identifiable)

the pink/white wire from pin #87 of the fuel relay goes to the pumps.

remove the fuel relay and with an ohmmeter, test value between pins 85 & 86: you should see about 75-80 Ohms (if in doubt put the horn relay from the drop down fusebox in its place, they are the same)

Now pull the red stripe motronic relay, do the same test (as this is a diode relay, the black test lead needs to be on pin 85 and the red test lead on 86): you should get somewhere about 0.60 - 0.77 K/ohms

other than that I would put 12V direct to the fuel pumps and see that they are at least running when powered up (one in the trunk is easy to test as that is where your battery is!)
Attached Images
 

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
Wow. Thank u. I’ll test those. Hope in changing battery, I didn’t stupidly knock something loose. Gotta be something basic. Car has been faultless up to this point.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 07:45 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
Platinum Subscriber
 
Gubi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 9,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
a clicking relay is not necessarily a working relay.
(Tom, the S4 fuel relay has no fuse...)
If you trace the wiring, you'll see that the 15A fuse on the aux motronic relay also protects the fuel pump relay. Diagram I have is in German (which in this case probably works out pretty well.)

A failure mode I've seen on a couple of cars is that the lambda sensor heater shorts which blows this fuse, and then no power to fuel pumps.
Attached Images
 

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
Gubi is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 07:57 AM
Registered User
 
GV27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 1,717
Garage
Send a message via AIM to GV27
If you don't find anything with the relays and/or fuses, you're correct that the crank sensor is the next thing to check. Test for resistance between the center pin and the outer pins. IIRC, one should be zero and the other 600ohm.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce

Last edited by GV27; 07-15-2019 at 08:28 AM.
GV27 is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
Motronic relay/ red stripe reads zero 86 to 85. Tried reading s both red n blk leads on both ends. All others read 82 Assuming it’s unique given spec is different n red stripe. Lmk if there’s a sub to try otherwise I’ll order in a factory spec one. Thanks.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:21 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinshaw View Post
Motronic relay/ red stripe reads zero 86 to 85. Tried reading s both red n blk leads on both ends. All others read 82 Assuming itís unique given spec is different n red stripe. Lmk if thereís a sub to try otherwise Iíll order in a factory spec one. Thanks.
sounds bad, so time to replace it.
When you order, order two of them!
All S4 drivers should have a spare in the glove box!

Original is Bosch 0 332 014 112
same as Range Rover Classic V8 Efi /Discovery1 V8 Efi (part: LR - AFU2913L)

about 15 bucks on ebay.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
Solved

FWIW ignition relay doesn’t have an ohm reading since I gather it’s open until started. Swapped in the one from the TS for testing.
It had same reading n ran fine. Spider one did as well

What finally was the issue was the wire connector was pushed down in the plastic housing, so not seating w the relay.

Stupidly simple. Car all good now.

Thanks for the learning experience.
integrale likes this.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:43 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinshaw View Post
Solved

FWIW ignition relay doesn’t have an ohm reading since I gather it’s open until started. Swapped in the one from the TS for testing.
It had same reading n ran fine. Spider one did as well...
glad it is solved

however I do not follow you on "no" ohms reading thing.....

It will read
a) if you chose the correct pin #s, which I am sure you did.
b) if you switch the DVM to the correct register, in the case of my DVM below, it needs to be in the 2000 range....if you leave it in the 200 range you just get a bar (---)

all 3 of my spare red stripes read out:
Attached Images
 

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
pinshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 477
Garage
Good to know.
I’ll try it. I did have it on 200
others read 82, new back ups at 91

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super Project, 73 Berlina TS, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
pinshaw is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome