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New Alfa Spider Graduate owner

2K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  Jim G 
#1 ·
Hello all and thank you for the valuable information on this board! I just bought a clean 1988 Alfa Romeo Graduate. I drove the car for about 50 miles to get home and the car ran great until the last leg of the trip. The car began to cut out and then back on and finally it just quit running. I costed the car to the side of the road and sat there for about ten minutes. I tried to start the car a few times to no luck. Then after some time passed the car started and got me home. I suspected a bad coils so I tested the resistance and then replaced the coil. Drove the car the next day and it seemed to run fine. Then the problem did the same thing. I let it cool down and drove it home. I suspect the ignition system as this acts like an old ford I had that did the same thing. The ford had a bad ECM. The Alfa has an ignition ECM and an injection ECM. Has anyone had this same type of issue? What were the causes and solutions?
 
#5 ·
Be sure to put what state you live in your user id location. It sometimes makes a difference if you live Michigan or Florida like me. We will try to help you the best we can. Hopefully there is a Alfa club near you that can help also.
 
#7 ·
Thank you, the fuel pump in line is working. I guess it is possible that one in the tank is not but The symptoms make me think it’s an ignition issue. In looking at wiring diagrams I have found out the the ignition system is tied to the fuel system so I guess the symptoms my be confusing. When the car dies it’s like the key has been turned off then on then off maybe on again then off and the car dies. It cools down and starts again.
 
#8 ·
Welcome aboard.

See the link in my signature to a page of info about diagnosing Series 3 Spider ailments.

When an engine dies the first thing I'd want to do is narrow it down to broken internal components, lack of spark or lack of fuel. Assuming no loud bangs and internal parts falling out we can usually rule out internal derangement. An easy way to figure out if it is lack of spark or lack of fuel is to watch the tach as the engine dies. The tach gets its signal from the ignition system - if the tach needle drops to its rest and then the engine dies it is probably ignition related. If the tach registers as the engine dies it is probably fuel related. (but check under the car for things like pistons laying on the road...)

Have you noticed any whoosh of air when you remove the gas cap? The emissions control system means the tank is not vented directly to the air. But it still needs a way to replace the fuel used with some air so there is a small vapor recovery tank, a one way valve and an air vent valve (all located in the compartment in front of the trunk). If those valves get stuck closed the tank won't vent. After driving a while it'll act like it ran out of gas. Usually it will very slowly relieve the vacuum and then start OK after a while or overnight.

A weak or failed in-tank pump will usually reveal itself with stalling/difficulty running when the tank is below ~ 1/2 full. But it probably wouldn't get better by sitting for a while. (but, then again, it's an Alfa so it will do unexpected things...)
 
#9 ·
I did think about vapor lock so I did get out and open the gas cap. I did not hear or feel a vacuum as I unscrewed the cap. I actually expected a bit of that and was surprised when it did not happen. I will check out your troubleshooting guide. Thank you. I will also watch the tach when I get back to do more work on the car. I am pretty good with most cars but this Alfa is a different animal so I really appreciate the guidance.
 
#10 ·
Follow Eric's advice. It covers most all of what i was going to say.
He is pretty sharp.
Where are you located?

Greg
 
#16 ·
Ain't nuttin' wrong with an occasional pat on the back by oneself.:wink2:
And Eric, that was a precise & succinct description of the Alfa's ailment. Nicely done.
And everyone knows you're handsome!
 
#17 ·
Excuse Me

Please excuse me for forgetting my manners,,
Welcome to the Alfa Board!
This is the place to learn all Alfa :grin2:
 
#19 ·
Here are my two cents worth.
First, I would like to understand the cutting out, fuel or ignition cutting out. Is it slowly dying or quick shut off? Are the instrument lights turned on or are they staying off? The injection system test is a great article, but hard to use here as the issue is only happening when warmed up. Cold , static test won't reveal much. When warmed up and issue rises , that's the time to test. Fuel pressure or volume related would be a slow dying or poor throttle response.
Sounds more like a bad connection in the power supply or relay area to me. I would not recommend going crazy on every little detail mentioned, rather stay on a clear path to diagnose and start with the most basic approach, incl. battery and charging system test.
Good luck
 
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#20 ·
Thank you for the reply. The car runs great then it will just cut off, if I am rolling it may refute as it is rolling but then it just shuts off again and I have to cost to the side of the road. I have not noticed if the tach drops suddenly or if it drops gradually but the car shuts down instantly. The sun was out so no lights to look at. What I do know is that someone has bypassed the fuel pump relay by wiring the ping with white stripped wire to the two green with black stripped wires which connects to the main relay. I am going to fix that wiring and test the relay s first. Then I will test the two fuel pumps. Not sure where to go after that.
 
#21 ·
Okay I think I have determined that my issue is definitely in the fuel injection system. I replaced both fuel pumps and the fuel lines going to the pumps. Now the car actually seems to have the issue sooner but it takes longer for it to completely quit. What happens is that I will drive along and all is well then I get a quick miss like the car is running out of fuel. A short time later the miss becomes a jerking like the fuel is off and then back on again. Then the car just quits and I cost to the side of the road. It sits for 10 to 20 minutes and fires back up. I have lessened the fuel cap and there is no vacuum in the tank. I checked the fuel return line and fuel is returning to the tank. I noted in an earlier post that someone has bypassed the fuel relay so the pumps stay on all the time that the key is on. Pink wire with the white strip ( I think this should be red with a white strip but the red has faded?). Is wired to the green wires with black strip. Key on and fuel pumps run. Any more help would be greatly appreciated!!
 
#22 ·
I'm as fresh to my alfa as you, and found Papajam's schematics invaluable. Try to track those down if you haven't already. They circulate via email, I believe per copyright requests. So perhaps if you ask the forum about your 1988 someone will get back to you.
 
#23 ·
Hoping for more ideas in an effort to diagnose my 1988 Alfa Romeo Spider fuel injection issue. The symptom is that after several miles, and the car running nicely, it seems to act as if it is running out of gas. It will finally stall and I coast to a safe spot to wait. After 10 to 20 minutes the car starts and I can continue. Here is a list of things I have done and things I have knowticed as I check out different systems. First I found that someone had wired around the drive solenoid and the pink with white stripped wire is connected to the two green with black stripped wires on the main relay. With out that connection the fuel pumps do not run. With it wired this way the fuel pumps run continuously when the key is on. I have a new main relay and I have ordered a drive relay so that I can restore the wiring to the fuel pumps. I replaced the fuel pump in the tank, the main pump in the fuel line, and the fuel filter. I also replace the fuel line from the lift pump to the main pump. The old hose was dry rotted and sprung a leak when I started removing it. I also believe the drive time changes with the fuel level. The more fuel the farther I can drive before I have the issue. Once the fuel drops to less then a half of a tank the car acts up sooner. I did find that the wire clip was missing on one of the two crank sensors and the connection was a little lose. I plugged the connector back in and used electrical tape to keep it in place. I should also mention that I checked to make sure fuel was returning to the tank and it is. There is no sign of pressure in the gas tank when the car acts up and I open the fuel cap. There has to be something else that is stopping fuel flow to the injectors. I am looking for any and all suggestions please. The car is too pretty to just sit in the driveway.
 
#24 ·
It sounds like the in tank oump is not working correctly. Under half a tank the main pump cannot pull the fuel out of the tank with out the in tank pump working.
 
#25 · (Edited)
when you changed the in tank pump, did you inspect the little stepped hose?
If that has a break, it causes problems when fuel level drops below 1/2

Whilst fault finding, I'd suggest you keep the tank full, as I doubt a bad intank hose would (as you write) feel as though "you just turned off the key and back on again"!.... it'd be more like the engine was struggling to pull well, as the main pump is overstressed.

If it were mine, I'd get that relay hack job back to original (fuel and electric is pretty much connected on these cars, a dodgy relay will stop fuel etc) and do a permanent fix on that loose flywheel sensor connector (a loose contact THERE would indeed feel like "you just turned off the key and back on again")...you can buy new bosch connectors online
 
#26 ·
Thank you both. I am waiting on the new drive relay and then I will get all the relay wiring back into factory spec. I did replace the step hose when I replaced the in tank pump. It is hard to tell if that pump is working as it simply clicks and I do not hear a motor. I did check all the pump electrical connections and it is getting power. I am wondering if Having the pumps run all the time may be building up too much fuel in the regulator causing it to then not send fuel to the injectors properly. I do know that a lot of fuel is being sent back to the tank at idle but this might be normal. While I wait for the relay I am going to run a fuel pressure test to see what that shows. Oh I did unplug one of the crank sensors and the car kept idling. Are those two sensors redundant?
 
#27 ·
Did you replace the fuel filter?

You can check the intake pump with the car off by using a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the center terminal of the sender. You should hear an even hum.
 
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