New Alfa Spider Graduate owner - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 08:29 PM
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Ain't nuttin' wrong with an occasional pat on the back by oneself.
And Eric, that was a precise & succinct description of the Alfa's ailment. Nicely done.
And everyone knows you're handsome!

"No chance, no destiny, no fate can circumvent, change or control the firm resolve of a determined soul"

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 08:34 PM
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Unhappy Excuse Me

Please excuse me for forgetting my manners,,
Welcome to the Alfa Board!
This is the place to learn all Alfa

"No chance, no destiny, no fate can circumvent, change or control the firm resolve of a determined soul"

73 Spider
80 BMW e21(Sold, gone to Houston)
79 Spider (sold)
78 Spider (sold, gone to U K)
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfaboutvegas View Post
Ain't nuttin' wrong with an occasional pat on the back by oneself.
And Eric, that was a precise & succinct description of the Alfa's ailment. Nicely done.
And everyone knows you're handsome!
Handsome and, don't forget, humble.
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__________
Rick

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81 Spider Veloce
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 10:43 PM
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Here are my two cents worth.
First, I would like to understand the cutting out, fuel or ignition cutting out. Is it slowly dying or quick shut off? Are the instrument lights turned on or are they staying off? The injection system test is a great article, but hard to use here as the issue is only happening when warmed up. Cold , static test won't reveal much. When warmed up and issue rises , that's the time to test. Fuel pressure or volume related would be a slow dying or poor throttle response.
Sounds more like a bad connection in the power supply or relay area to me. I would not recommend going crazy on every little detail mentioned, rather stay on a clear path to diagnose and start with the most basic approach, incl. battery and charging system test.
Good luck
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Welcome to the world of racing! Budgets are ALWAYS exceeded, deadlines are never meet, end-goals never reached, and wives always unhappy... it's all worth it though!
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the reply. The car runs great then it will just cut off, if I am rolling it may refute as it is rolling but then it just shuts off again and I have to cost to the side of the road. I have not noticed if the tach drops suddenly or if it drops gradually but the car shuts down instantly. The sun was out so no lights to look at. What I do know is that someone has bypassed the fuel pump relay by wiring the ping with white stripped wire to the two green with black stripped wires which connects to the main relay. I am going to fix that wiring and test the relay s first. Then I will test the two fuel pumps. Not sure where to go after that.
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Okay I think I have determined that my issue is definitely in the fuel injection system. I replaced both fuel pumps and the fuel lines going to the pumps. Now the car actually seems to have the issue sooner but it takes longer for it to completely quit. What happens is that I will drive along and all is well then I get a quick miss like the car is running out of fuel. A short time later the miss becomes a jerking like the fuel is off and then back on again. Then the car just quits and I cost to the side of the road. It sits for 10 to 20 minutes and fires back up. I have lessened the fuel cap and there is no vacuum in the tank. I checked the fuel return line and fuel is returning to the tank. I noted in an earlier post that someone has bypassed the fuel relay so the pumps stay on all the time that the key is on. Pink wire with the white strip ( I think this should be red with a white strip but the red has faded?). Is wired to the green wires with black strip. Key on and fuel pumps run. Any more help would be greatly appreciated!!
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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 08:51 AM
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I'm as fresh to my alfa as you, and found Papajam's schematics invaluable. Try to track those down if you haven't already. They circulate via email, I believe per copyright requests. So perhaps if you ask the forum about your 1988 someone will get back to you.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Hoping for more ideas in an effort to diagnose my 1988 Alfa Romeo Spider fuel injection issue. The symptom is that after several miles, and the car running nicely, it seems to act as if it is running out of gas. It will finally stall and I coast to a safe spot to wait. After 10 to 20 minutes the car starts and I can continue. Here is a list of things I have done and things I have knowticed as I check out different systems. First I found that someone had wired around the drive solenoid and the pink with white stripped wire is connected to the two green with black stripped wires on the main relay. With out that connection the fuel pumps do not run. With it wired this way the fuel pumps run continuously when the key is on. I have a new main relay and I have ordered a drive relay so that I can restore the wiring to the fuel pumps. I replaced the fuel pump in the tank, the main pump in the fuel line, and the fuel filter. I also replace the fuel line from the lift pump to the main pump. The old hose was dry rotted and sprung a leak when I started removing it. I also believe the drive time changes with the fuel level. The more fuel the farther I can drive before I have the issue. Once the fuel drops to less then a half of a tank the car acts up sooner. I did find that the wire clip was missing on one of the two crank sensors and the connection was a little lose. I plugged the connector back in and used electrical tape to keep it in place. I should also mention that I checked to make sure fuel was returning to the tank and it is. There is no sign of pressure in the gas tank when the car acts up and I open the fuel cap. There has to be something else that is stopping fuel flow to the injectors. I am looking for any and all suggestions please. The car is too pretty to just sit in the driveway.
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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019, 12:52 PM
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It sounds like the in tank oump is not working correctly. Under half a tank the main pump cannot pull the fuel out of the tank with out the in tank pump working.
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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 01:31 AM
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when you changed the in tank pump, did you inspect the little stepped hose?
If that has a break, it causes problems when fuel level drops below 1/2

Whilst fault finding, I'd suggest you keep the tank full, as I doubt a bad intank hose would (as you write) feel as though "you just turned off the key and back on again"!.... it'd be more like the engine was struggling to pull well, as the main pump is overstressed.

If it were mine, I'd get that relay hack job back to original (fuel and electric is pretty much connected on these cars, a dodgy relay will stop fuel etc) and do a permanent fix on that loose flywheel sensor connector (a loose contact THERE would indeed feel like "you just turned off the key and back on again")...you can buy new bosch connectors online

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 07-24-2019 at 01:35 AM.
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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you both. I am waiting on the new drive relay and then I will get all the relay wiring back into factory spec. I did replace the step hose when I replaced the in tank pump. It is hard to tell if that pump is working as it simply clicks and I do not hear a motor. I did check all the pump electrical connections and it is getting power. I am wondering if Having the pumps run all the time may be building up too much fuel in the regulator causing it to then not send fuel to the injectors properly. I do know that a lot of fuel is being sent back to the tank at idle but this might be normal. While I wait for the relay I am going to run a fuel pressure test to see what that shows. Oh I did unplug one of the crank sensors and the car kept idling. Are those two sensors redundant?
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 05:29 AM
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Did you replace the fuel filter?

You can check the intake pump with the car off by using a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the center terminal of the sender. You should hear an even hum.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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