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1990 S3.5 lower radiator hose

8K views 50 replies 12 participants last post by  SummersJM 
#1 ·
I have a 1990 spider which looks like an S3 but is a Motronic car with electric fans.
I have tried 3 different lower radiator hoses from 3 different vendors. (Vicks, Trail and Centerline) They all sell the same hose which doesn't match my hose nor does it fit on the water pump. Too tight.
They all call for the same hose for 1990 - 1994 which is part number 605-62912

An ex-Alfa technician whose opinion I respect very much looked up the hose in his documentation and found part number 605-55449 for 1990.

I cannot find this part number anywhere..

Anyone with a 1990 been through this?
 
#2 ·
Classicalfa shows Bottom hose 1989-93 (WA016) with electric fans.
Cheers, Jon
 
#3 ·
Thanks but unfortunately, they just responded and said that they only have the hose for non-AC cars.
 
#4 ·
Hard to believe that no one on this list has a North American spec 1990 spider with A/C and has not come across this problem.
Here is what i have learned.
From 1969 through 1990, the US spec cars apparently used a water pump with the lower hose connection at the 9 o'clock position while the ROW cars used a water pump with the lower hose connection at the 8 o'clock position.
The reason was that the US spec cars had to have the hose clear the Spica injection pump and on Bosch cars, clear the A/C compressor which went where the Spica pump was.
In 1990, Alfa changed the radiator to the one used through 1994 but still used the old pump. In 1991, they changed to the pump that has the connection at the 8 o'clock position when they moved the A/C compressor and added power steering.
Soooo, the 1990 is a unique beast with a special lower radiator hose.

All that being said, I still cannot find a replacement hose or get a response from someone who has found a solution to this dilemma.

If I ever come up with a solution, I will surely share it.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Patience young grasshopper! There are only a few of us with '90s on here and at least some of us need to consult our notes for info like this.

I think the 1990 has a perfect blend of the most modern injection without the power steering, air bag and other S4 additions. But you do run into things like this here and there, plus I'm not convinced that all '90s are the same - in fact I'm convinced of the exact opposite.

Unfortunately my notes aren't as helpful as I had hoped. They are a bit sketchy and somehow I can't find my receipts for this job. I save all of my receipts so that's a bit of a mystery. If I had that I'd be able to tell you exactly. Or if I'd been smart and put the part number in my notes.

But I did run across this exact issue once upon a time. It took a couple of pumps and a couple of hoses to hit the right combo. According my notes, the proper pump turned out to be an '89 and the hose I have listed as "1990 with OUT A/C". Yes my car has (well, had) A/C but the proper hose turned out to be listed like this. No idea why. I'm pretty sure I got it from Vick.

SOOO.....I wish they had a picture to be sure but I think this is probably the proper hose:

Radiator Hose Lower - Spider 1990 (non Ac) (SKU 11-4851) [11-4851] - $44.74 : Vick Autosports, The Premier Fiat and Alfa Parts Source

Though this picture on the Vick site bears an uncanny resemblance to my hose and looks quite different from Centerline's picture of the same hose:

Radiator Hose Lower - Spider 1991 on (with Ac) (SKU 11-4827) [11-4827] - $38.00 : Vick Autosports, The Premier Fiat and Alfa Parts Source
 
#7 ·
GV27/Chris
You have been PMed.
BTW, I pretty much agree with you assessment of a 1990 model which is why i am bringing this thing back to life after sitting for 12 years.
Wish I had the dual pods like my 1985 and a deep dish wood wheel but other than that, I like it just the way it is. S3 looks with S4 technology and accessibility under the hood.
 
#8 ·
It has been some time but I believe I used a Gates 22150. It required some trimming and I needed to use some nylon ties, with something to keep the ties from rubbing through the hose. I needed to use the ties to keep the hose away from one of the pulleys.
 
#11 ·
That part number came from an Alfa Romeo microfische that came from a dealer here in the USA. I do not believe it was correct outside of the USA.
Most cars in Europe first did not have the Spica pump and later id not have the air conditioner compressor where the Spica pump used to be.
US spec cars used a water pump that had the connector coming straight out to the right side of the car at the 9 o'clock position if you were facing it.
ROW cars had a pump that had the connector coming out at the 8 o'clock position which interferes with the earlier Spica pump and the later A/C compressor.
See attached photo.

I got a reply from DiFatta today saying that the hose as not been available for 13 years.
 

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#17 ·
That part number came from an Alfa Romeo microfische that came from a dealer here in the USA.
The interesting thing about that is that my copy of the USA dealer microfiche shows an entirely different number. It shows 2 p/n's actually - I think 10 is probably with A/C? I can't find any clue about what exactly the * means.....
 

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#12 ·
Greg,
Thank you for clearing that up.
so the PN 60555449 is most likely correct for the S3.5.

Hoses in our spiders were marked S.A.I.A.G (Società Industria Articoli Gomma), that was the original hose manufacturer, 'till Pirelli swallowed them in '93.
(today's bit of useless information;))

Dom
 
#14 ·
Dom, so you can see that my hose is the original from 1990. Good eyes. Jim G noticed that also.

divotandtralee
There is a photo of the correct hose installed on the car above. I can try to get the dimensions of the ends but basically the water pump end is whatever Alfa water pumps all had and the radiator end is the standard size for all S4 spiders.
 
#20 ·
Thank you GV27/Chris. I was going to rebut that comment about standard sizes but you did it for me. If that were true, no one could sell parts as none would fit.
Now back to the subject and your diagram. Notice that the connection to the water pump is at the 8 o'clock position if you were looking at it from the front.
That pump is used from 1991 on in US spec cars and I believe was used in ROW cars that did not have A/C or in earlier instances, a Spica pump.
The pump used from 1969 through 1990 in US spec cars had the connection at the 9 o'clock position to avoid interference with the belts from the Spica pump and later the A/C compressor.
The part number 10, 605-62912 is the correct hose part number for the 1991 and newer cars where the A/C compressor was moved and power steering was added.
The 1990 US spec car had the 1991 and newer radiator and the older version of the water pump since the A/C compressor was in the same position as the earlier 80s S3 cars
The other part number 9, 605-20957 is a new one on me. I will do a little digging on that one.
Jim G, if you are following this thread, anything you can shed light on regarding the 605-20957 part number?

FYI, my radiator connection point measures 1.45 inches and the connection on my water pump measures 1.3 inches.
 
#21 ·
Just noticed that Spruell Alfa lists that part number 605-20957 as a complete hose set for 1990-1994
 
#22 · (Edited)
Well, I only rebutted him about the ends. What's in the middle is the trick and he's absolutely right - just finding one with the right ends does you no good if the shape between doesn't fit. Otherwise you could most likely just go down to your local Advance Auto and find one with the correct end dimensions.

I do understand that Alfa's legendary attention to precision in documentation - especially during transition years - likely precludes the right part number being paired with an inaccurate drawing :rolleyes:, but it may be worth considering.

But look, do you want to pin down a part number that someone has already told you is NLA or do you want to find a replacement hose for your car? If the former, then by all means keep analyzing parts diagrams. If the latter, you have been given two possible leads in this thread. Neither is a sure thing - both might be long shots - but a lot more likely to get you the part you need than pouring over old suspect diagrams.

First - my suggestions. My old note says that the correct hose was mislabeled as "non-A/C" and likely came from Vick. Vick lists exactly that part which is an awfully weird part if you think about it. Hardly any non-A/C spiders were sold in 1990 in the US. Which is why they still have the part I suppose: nobody needs it. But what if it's just mislabeled in their bin and nobody has figured it out? It's not like these outfits have '90 Spiders laying around to check for fit, what's in the database has to be assumed to be true until proven otherwise.

Second, divotandtralee has a stash of unidentified Alfa radiator hoses that he's willing to search through and if he finds a match sell you for cheap. You should consider taking him up on that kind offer.

In both cases your course of action is clear if you actually want to find a replacement hose: remove your old hose and photograph it from a few angles send them to Vick, send them to divotandtralee, send them to Classic Alfa and see if anyone has something that looks like a match. A hose listed as 1990 that looks even vaguely like yours has a high likelihood of working.
 
#24 ·
Dom
So, both sites show the same usage for two different part numbers. Hmmm...
Looking at the photos, they two parts are definitely different if the the photos are correct and the 60520957 actually looks like the correct one.
I took a chance and ordered one. Lucky that i knew how to say United States in German or I could never have figured my way around that site. Everything was in German.
WE shall see.

Chris
Everyone(not just Vick) in the United States shows the same hose. I have contacted over 10 different vendors here and educated most of them on the differences. All their hoses work just fine with a 1991 and newer car but they list them as 1990 and up. A couple of them though did know exactly what I was talking about but could not get the part.
 
#25 ·
This just a public service to all who own US spec 1990 Alfa Spiders with A/C, all who have sold me or tried to sell me the wrong lower radiator hose and all interested in getting the correct hose.

I also want to say thanks to all who contributed to the discovery of this hose

This hose is different than all of the ones I have seen on websites until now. I bought one and received it and it is exactly what came on the car originally down to the manufacturers stamp. See photos attached.

The hose on the left is correct hose. The one on the right is part number 605-62912 which I believe will work on a 1991 and newer spider when they moved the A/C compressor and added power steering.

Below is a link to the site that has the correct lower radiator hose for that car. The Alfa part number is 605-20957, not 605-62912

https://www.alfa-onlineshop.de/kueh...erpumpe-neu-spider-2000-ie-bj.1988-1993-18679
 

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#26 · (Edited)
well, that IS good to know, plus it is OEM quality.
Thanks for following up, Chris! (Greg, I mean...sorry)

just noticed that the Gates 20873 coolant hose, lists that alfa number (60520957) in the interchange PN list, although the hose looks rather too simple in my mind....
(IF it fitted, that would be a great source closer to home for you guys)
 
#31 ·
It`s a pain in the a$$.
Be sure there`s clearance with the belts. Placing it too high on the water pump can cause seriously reduced clearance with the serpentine belt.
The 1990 model year does not use the serpentine belt. Same belt system as the 1989 and earlier cars.
 
#35 ·
I have what was sold to me as a 1990 Spider with Motronic FI & a serpentine belt for the AC & PS.???
Seller probably looked at the build date and not the model year date. If the engine had the 1990 crank pulley on it. You can just about name your on price for it. As its a one year only pulley.
 
#33 ·
Sounds like either a 1990 that was modified to a S4 set up or a you have a later model.

A 1990 looks like a 1986 thru 1989 model but has the Motronic like the 1991 and later.

If that is the case, the belt I am referring to is not the one for you.
 
#37 ·
Looks like I'm bringing this thread back from the dead. I saw that pantera928 noted that you can get the 1990 hose from here. https://www.alfa-onlineshop.de/kueh...erpumpe-neu-spider-2000-ie-bj.1988-1993-18679. It appears that they have been out of stock for a while now. Has anyone found a source for this hose closer to home (US)? I ordered the wrong hose from Centerline and only realized it was the wrong hose after removing it. I then of course found this thread, and now have a car that doesn't have a hose. Any help would be great! Thanks all!
 
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