1990 S3.5 lower radiator hose - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pantera928 View Post
Dom, so you can see that my hose is the original from 1990. Good eyes. Jim G noticed that also.

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There is a photo of the correct hose installed on the car above. I can try to get the dimensions of the ends but basically the water pump end is whatever Alfa water pumps all had and the radiator end is the standard size for all S4 spiders.
Nothing is "standard" size, even in Alfa-world, if you want it to fit right. I know many people think one size fits all but it is incorrect. The photo won't help It must be off the car.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pantera928 View Post
That part number came from an Alfa Romeo microfische that came from a dealer here in the USA.
The interesting thing about that is that my copy of the USA dealer microfiche shows an entirely different number. It shows 2 p/n's actually - I think 10 is probably with A/C? I can't find any clue about what exactly the * means.....
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by divotandtralee View Post
Nothing is "standard" size, even in Alfa-world, if you want it to fit right. I know many people think one size fits all but it is incorrect. The photo won't help It must be off the car.
Well, I do think Pantera is correct about the ends - the water pump end is the same size for all '80s and '90s Spiders and the radiator end is the same for at least '90 - '94 and I think earlier. It's the shape in between that is very specific to this car.....
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 09:32 AM
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Well, I do think Pantera is correct about the ends - the water pump end is the same size for all '80s and '90s Spiders and the radiator end is the same for at least '90 - '94 and I think earlier. It's the shape in between that is very specific to this car.....
All well and good... I don't own any of those cars and the hoses I have vary in shape and size and they are all from Alfas of unknown applications...GTV's Alfettas, GTV6's .. who knows .. They aren't marked but they are NEW. I'm just trying to help but cie l'vie.. Sending a $7 part through the PO and finding it is wrong is not my bag. Both parties are wasting their time and most importantly me.

Last edited by divotandtralee; 07-16-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you GV27/Chris. I was going to rebut that comment about standard sizes but you did it for me. If that were true, no one could sell parts as none would fit.
Now back to the subject and your diagram. Notice that the connection to the water pump is at the 8 o'clock position if you were looking at it from the front.
That pump is used from 1991 on in US spec cars and I believe was used in ROW cars that did not have A/C or in earlier instances, a Spica pump.
The pump used from 1969 through 1990 in US spec cars had the connection at the 9 o'clock position to avoid interference with the belts from the Spica pump and later the A/C compressor.
The part number 10, 605-62912 is the correct hose part number for the 1991 and newer cars where the A/C compressor was moved and power steering was added.
The 1990 US spec car had the 1991 and newer radiator and the older version of the water pump since the A/C compressor was in the same position as the earlier 80s S3 cars
The other part number 9, 605-20957 is a new one on me. I will do a little digging on that one.
Jim G, if you are following this thread, anything you can shed light on regarding the 605-20957 part number?

FYI, my radiator connection point measures 1.45 inches and the connection on my water pump measures 1.3 inches.
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Just noticed that Spruell Alfa lists that part number 605-20957 as a complete hose set for 1990-1994
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 08:26 PM
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Well, I only rebutted him about the ends. What's in the middle is the trick and he's absolutely right - just finding one with the right ends does you no good if the shape between doesn't fit. Otherwise you could most likely just go down to your local Advance Auto and find one with the correct end dimensions.

I do understand that Alfa's legendary attention to precision in documentation - especially during transition years - likely precludes the right part number being paired with an inaccurate drawing , but it may be worth considering.

But look, do you want to pin down a part number that someone has already told you is NLA or do you want to find a replacement hose for your car? If the former, then by all means keep analyzing parts diagrams. If the latter, you have been given two possible leads in this thread. Neither is a sure thing - both might be long shots - but a lot more likely to get you the part you need than pouring over old suspect diagrams.

First - my suggestions. My old note says that the correct hose was mislabeled as "non-A/C" and likely came from Vick. Vick lists exactly that part which is an awfully weird part if you think about it. Hardly any non-A/C spiders were sold in 1990 in the US. Which is why they still have the part I suppose: nobody needs it. But what if it's just mislabeled in their bin and nobody has figured it out? It's not like these outfits have '90 Spiders laying around to check for fit, what's in the database has to be assumed to be true until proven otherwise.

Second, divotandtralee has a stash of unidentified Alfa radiator hoses that he's willing to search through and if he finds a match sell you for cheap. You should consider taking him up on that kind offer.

In both cases your course of action is clear if you actually want to find a replacement hose: remove your old hose and photograph it from a few angles send them to Vick, send them to divotandtralee, send them to Classic Alfa and see if anyone has something that looks like a match. A hose listed as 1990 that looks even vaguely like yours has a high likelihood of working.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 12:47 AM
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The interesting thing about that is that my copy of the USA dealer microfiche shows an entirely different number. It shows 2 p/n's actually - I think 10 is probably with A/C? I can't find any clue about what exactly the * means.....
you'd think the * has to be A/C cars, well I would! (the microfiche must have a key somewhere to explain)

the first hose pn, 60520957 listed here as 88-93 with AC:
https://www.alfa-onlineshop.de/kuehl...988-1993-18679

Second hose pn, 60562912: alfissimo shows this also as 88-93 with AC:
https://alfissimo.com/home/1422-radi...condition.html

so that clears that up I suppose ......huh?!

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Dom
So, both sites show the same usage for two different part numbers. Hmmm...
Looking at the photos, they two parts are definitely different if the the photos are correct and the 60520957 actually looks like the correct one.
I took a chance and ordered one. Lucky that i knew how to say United States in German or I could never have figured my way around that site. Everything was in German.
WE shall see.

Chris
Everyone(not just Vick) in the United States shows the same hose. I have contacted over 10 different vendors here and educated most of them on the differences. All their hoses work just fine with a 1991 and newer car but they list them as 1990 and up. A couple of them though did know exactly what I was talking about but could not get the part.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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This just a public service to all who own US spec 1990 Alfa Spiders with A/C, all who have sold me or tried to sell me the wrong lower radiator hose and all interested in getting the correct hose.

I also want to say thanks to all who contributed to the discovery of this hose

This hose is different than all of the ones I have seen on websites until now. I bought one and received it and it is exactly what came on the car originally down to the manufacturers stamp. See photos attached.

The hose on the left is correct hose. The one on the right is part number 605-62912 which I believe will work on a 1991 and newer spider when they moved the A/C compressor and added power steering.

Below is a link to the site that has the correct lower radiator hose for that car. The Alfa part number is 605-20957, not 605-62912

https://www.alfa-onlineshop.de/kuehl...988-1993-18679
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 05:34 AM
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well, that IS good to know, plus it is OEM quality.
Thanks for following up, Chris!

just noticed that the Gates 20873 coolant hose, lists that alfa number (60520957) in the interchange PN list, although the hose looks rather too simple in my mind....
(IF it fitted, that would be a great source closer to home for you guys)
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
The interesting thing about that is that my copy of the USA dealer microfiche shows an entirely different number. It shows 2 p/n's actually - I think 10 is probably with A/C? I can't find any clue about what exactly the * means.....
The symbol meanings are done the first column on the fiche. 3rd or 4th box I think.

The * means A/C. In typical Alfa/Fiat fashion. They reversed the parts numbers on the microfiche.
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1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 04:43 PM
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The symbol meanings are done the first column on the fiche. 3rd or 4th box I think.

The * means A/C. In typical Alfa/Fiat fashion. They reversed the parts numbers on the microfiche.
Not on mine but I did find it at the end of the appendix. Slide A13 has a breakdown of symbols and notation. * does indeed indicate air conditioning.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 04:46 PM
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Not on mine but I did find it at the end of the appendix. Slide A13 has a breakdown of symbols and notation. * does indeed indicate air conditioning.
Depends on which edition microfiche you have.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 07:58 AM
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Installing the hose

It`s a pain in the a$$.
Be sure there`s clearance with the belts. Placing it too high on the water pump can cause seriously reduced clearance with the serpentine belt.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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