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1973 Alfa Romeo Spider! (Yup, another one!)

3K views 28 replies 9 participants last post by  Backto105 
#1 ·
Ok guys the bug bit me pretty hard after driving my 84’..


And here is the result:






Car doesn’t run and it’s obviously been resprayed (The Joker trench coat purple?)

Engine appears to have been rebuilt but who knows, the owner claims it just needs:

1. A new distributor

2. Spica looked over or dual Webers (and you already know which option I’m going for!) [emoji48]


Many issues still have to be overcome. The DMV only issued me temporary registration and warned me that the title could take up to two months to get.
And the other issue being is that it desperately needs a garage! (Appointment for a prospective garage tomorrow, wish me luck!!)

Thoughts on rust? It looks good to me but input appreciated!

Convertible top being assembled:

 
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#2 ·
Looks like you got a pretty nice '73. Here are a few things you may want to do.
1. Check compression to make sure engine is sound.
2. Check to see if fuel is getting to the SPICA FI pump. Also make sure there's a drive belt to the pump. No fuel to the pump = clogged filter (unlikely) or bad inline fuel pump (most likely).
3. If fuel is getting to the pump, then check to see if fuel is being pumped out. There's a solenoid on the SPICA pump for cold starting. It's the one that's furthest from the drive cog and closest to the fender. Check your spark plugs after 5 no start cranks. If they're wet, dry them out and then try again. IF they're dry, then you don't have enough fuel coming in. Try some starter fluid and see if you can get her to start.
4. Do not crank, crank, crank to start the car. You'll overheat the starter.
5. If you have fuel, then check the spark plug. Make sure you have a spark going to the plug. Check at the plug, then dist cap. If all is good at the plug, then it could be a timing problem. If nothing at the dist cap, check the coil and wire from coil to cap. Check points - they're hard to change on this car - many recommend removing the distributor, so you have easy access.
6. If the battery is low, you may not be able to start the car. My '74 needs a strong battery to start her up.
7. You can start your car with the air cleaner removed. I recommend this method first, so you have access to the SPICA pump and the fuel pump relay.

You should get her to start. She may not run, but at least you'll get a start, which is a good thing. Diagnose the problem, isolate the culprit and change the part. If the SPICA is working, you may want to leave it alone and enjoy the car for a while before changing to the dual DCOE webers.

Put her up on the lift and check for rust at the rockers (inner and outer), wheel wells, fenders (behind the tire), rear quarter (in front of the tire), floorpan, spare tire well and front and rear valance. Look for patch jobs and make sure any repair work is sound and there are no leaks (or you'll rust again). Make sure the drain holed on the rockers are clear.

Check the rear trunion to make sure the rubber wafers are in good condition. Change if they're not. You'll feel the rear end moving if they're worn or missing.

Check engine and transmission mounts to make sure they're okay.

Change all fluids. Check brake hoses (rubber ones) and replace if cracked or brittle. Flush old brake fluid. Check radiator and heater hoses - replace if cracked. Check radiator overflow tank for leaks or cracks. Check radiator cap - make sure it doesn't leak. Change SPICA filter. Change air filter if needed. Replace vacuum hoses and four intake hoses from air cleaner to throttle bodies if cracked. Clean out oil separator (round thing on fender with hoses going to it). Replace hoses as needed. Change transmission fluid and rear diff fluid. Check distributor cap (no cracks and clean on underside with shiny metal contacts). Check rotor (not burned/pitted). Change plugs, unless they're like new condition with good crisp edged on the center electrode.

Check tires (not too old or cracked). Check brakes (lining okay).

If all is good, then enjoy your new Spider. It's convertible season!!!
 
#3 ·
One more recommendation.

You may want to swap wheels. I think the star wheels would look better on the newer red car and the Panasports will look better on the older blue car.

And I forgot to recommend checking the suspension for worn parts. If the shocks are stiff or leaking, replace all around. These cars have a nice compliant ride - they don't beat you up. If the shocks go bad, the car rides hard and you won't enjoy your beautiful new Spider!
 
#8 ·
I’d love to find something more period correct if lm being honest..

The panasports definitely fill the wheel wells nicely but I’m more of a stock wheel person. Anyways I have plenty of time before I need to even bother with that..

Let’s see if this engine is worth anything! For all I know it’s been “rebuilt” aka seized [emoji23].

Thanks for all the insight, it is greatly appreciated!


Car is now in a garage:

 
#4 ·
the owner claims it just needs:

1. A new distributor
Boy, that sounds pretty bogus. Now, there may be problems with the distributor (mis-adjusted points, bad condensor, ...) but they seldom need replacing.

2. Spica looked over or dual Webers
Yea, that I can believe. Unfortunately, no one here will have any opinions on the Spica vs. Weber thing :laugh2:
 
#6 ·
Unfortunately, no one here will have any opinions on the Spica vs. Weber thing :laugh2:
I'll bite.

I have had Alfas with all kinds of fuel induction systems: Spica, Bosch, and currently have a 2-liter '70 Giulia Super with dell'Ortos and a '79 Spider with Spica. The Super is stock except for the motor and an electric fuel pump; the '79 has been retrofitted with a traditional 2-piece cast iron exhaust manifold and a proper stock Euro exhaust with a Stinger rear.

Though much maligned, the Spica system, properly set up, is a pleasure: trouble-free, flexible, and affords both good fuel economy and power. Little maintenance is required once set up.

While ultimately you should go with whatever you like, I would recommend that you service the Spica and see how the car runs before going through the expense and trouble of putting carbs on your car.
 
#12 ·
If you have budget to get an electronic distributor then do it. It should be pretty straight forward to see if your current points distributor is in ok shape though, at least to get the engine running again. Are there points, is there a gap, not much play between the rotor shaft and body?

Cheers,
 
#14 ·
Thanks!

Currently at the dmv, praying to the motoring Gods..

“B008...B008...” 10 minutes later... “B008... B008..”

Wish me luck guys! They rejected my YOM plates based on technicalities, going in just for the title now..

The YOM plates will take a minimum of 2 months, so it’ll have to wait. Third time is the charm...
 
#16 ·
I converted my '73 to Webers (40DCOE32s) back in 1979 (long story, probably didn't need to do it...), first with Shankle adapters on the Spica intake manifold and then (1992) with an Alfa European OEM Weber manifold. Later (2008) I found and installed the Alfa European OEM air cleaner setup. At least in my experience, the stories of having to constantly fiddle with Webers are myths. Mine were last touched in 1992. Once I got them right, they've stayed that way. My drivability is excellent, probably because I went with a combination of chokes and jets (30mm/F16/115/50F8/200) that emphasizes around town low end response, probably at the expense of top end power. For my use, it's perfect. The throttle response with the Webers is instantaneous, much better than my brother's '74 with Spica. The intake noise with the European air cleaner setup is perfect, not intrusive at all. YMMV.
 
#19 ·
Thank you so much for your input! Those specifics should help me make a lot of purchasing decisions!

Unfortunately those European style air intakes are $$$$$$ [emoji15].

Anyways, on to some good news!
I’m a proud registered and titled owner of a 1973 Alfa Romeo Spider!

If anyone is reading this in the evening, please have an alcoholic beverage of your choice and celebrate with me.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I own a '71 with a 2L and dual Webers. Fantastic sound and the throttle snaps! I love it.
I own a '74 with a 2L and SPICA. Mechanical fuel injectors are cool. They're analog computers controlling four small pistons pumping gas to the engine. What could go wrong with such a set up!!!

Assuming nobody has "messed" with some important setting and as long as it's mechanically sound, the system can be put back into good condition and fully adjusted. The throttle won't snap when blipped (as compared to dual Webers). The music of air rushing to a carb is not there. But if you do the conversion, you won't have to mess with the TA or change the SPICA filter and oil, or check for gas in the oil, because the pump is leaking.

Remember that if you change to dual Webers, you lose the originality of the US market car. Also consider this; the European versions has dual Webers for many, many years after they stopped sending them to the US. If your car stayed in Europe, it would have dual Webers from the factory.

So, since dual Webers were used in Europe, you could say that to retain the true soul of the car you should be using carbs.

Personally, I like the dual Weber set up. I like the response of the motor. I like the sound of the air breathing through the carbs. I like having a simpler system under the hood (you get rid of a lot of things - it's not just the SPICA pump). And you have more room to work under the hood on the right side. And there's less chance of something breaking and leaving you on the side of the road.

My recommendation is to see if you can get her to run with the SPICA system. If you can and you get it tuned properly, then enjoy the car for the summer and make the Weber transformation part of the winter maintenance/upgrade plan.

When your car is right, you'll feel it. If you love the mechanical aspect of these older Italian gems, I can guarantee that your red '84 will be collecting dust as you enjoy the heck out of your new car! My guess is that you'll wind up selling it.

Enjoy and keep us posted on your progress!
 
#21 ·
Autobroker!

Thanks for responding! It’s funny you mention originality though. This paint job is sooooo incredibly unoriginal, so keeping it “authentic” isn’t part my plan.


You mention “snap throttle”, what is actually meant by this?

The way you describe the Webers functioning makes it seem like it’s the motoring bliss I am seeking!!

Petrolicious!

(Google if you are unfamiliar with the site, I highly recommend it!)
 
#18 ·
I just noticed that the side markers are gone. You have a nice clean look to the car. If you want to give her a more Euro look, you can put the round markers on the side (be careful you don't damage something under the paint). Also, Carrillo headlight covers would be a nice addition. And pull the bumpers in tighter (both fronts and back).

Your front end looks high. Check the springs - if they're the wrong ones, change them and while you in there, some new Koni's would be nice.

Good news - your camber looks good. Ball joints should be good and most likely the rest of the suspension parts also. Though you may need to change the rubber parts. If you put urethane bushing instead of rubber, you may notice a difference in the feel. You'll have to decide if you like the tightness of urethane bushings.

I like the look of your car and barring a bad motor and tranny or some really bad rust, I'd say you did well.
 
#22 ·
I just noticed that the side markers are gone. You have a nice clean look to the car. If you want to give her a more Euro look, you can put the round markers on the side (be careful you don't damage something under the paint). Also, Carrillo headlight covers would be a nice addition. And pull the bumpers in tighter (both fronts and back).



Your front end looks high. Check the springs - if they're the wrong ones, change them and while you in there, some new Koni's would be nice.



Good news - your camber looks good. Ball joints should be good and most likely the rest of the suspension parts also. Though you may need to change the rubber parts. If you put urethane bushing instead of rubber, you may notice a difference in the feel. You'll have to decide if you like the tightness of urethane bushings.



I like the look of your car and barring a bad motor and tranny or some really bad rust, I'd say you did well.


Round markers on the side? I’m sorry I am not familiar? Any pictures of a European spider?

Will headlight covers mean I have to drill into the body? Do they install without damaging anything?


I’m assuming adjusting the bumpers isn’t a big deal? Simply done?

I agree the front does seem high, but it’ll have to wait...

A lot needs to be tackled before this car moves under its own power..

Rust doesn’t seem to be an issue, we’ll see if the motor is happy soon!
 
#23 ·
@tremere613

You mention “snap throttle”, what is actually meant by this?
Another description is to blip the throttle (a quick step on the throttle). The SPICA has a slight hesitation, while the dual Webers respond instantly. Logically, I think it has to do with the SPICA pump (gas has to be pumped from those tiny pistons and there's a slight delay). With a dual carb set up, the gas is forced into the intake by mechanical pressure (accelerator pump), thus instant response. If my '71 were running, I'd take a video and you could compare it to my '74 with SPICA or my '80 with a single throttle body SPICA.
 
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