Tram-lining With Wider Tires? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Tram-lining With Wider Tires?

I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.

Bill

1991 S4 Spider "Gabriela", 2017 VW Golf R, 2018 VW GTI,

Previous obsessions; 2006 Mustang GT, 2006 BMW Z4M, 5 other Bimmers, Capri V6, Renault 5, Lotus Cortina, Sunbeam Alpine, Ducati Diana Mk 3, Norton Commando
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:07 AM
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I run 205/60/14s and don't notice it any more than I think I should. Wider tires will just follow imperfections in the road just because they are wider and contact more of the surface...
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Straw View Post
I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.
We need to swap cars and go for a ride.

78 Spider, Webers, header, Shankle cams, bumperless, lowered, Konis
78 Sport Sedan, header, Spica
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 05:12 AM
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If it's a 105 you are talking about, then these cars were not meant to run that wheel tyre set up 24/7 as it punishes 'wears out' the steering box. When they were racing GTA's with 7" wheels they could just get another new steering box from the parts bin, not a problem. Which could explain why Alfaholics have new billet ones on offer. Put the original wheels and tyres specs back on the car. If it's still 'Tram-lining' you have a worn out your steering box past it's usable specs a combination of ware over 50 years and then further accelerated ware thanks to the heavy loads of your tyre and wheel combination.
I think the steering box is one of the 'Achilles heals' of the car.
Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 05-26-2019 at 05:18 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Straw View Post
I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.
What were the actual specs it was aligned to?

1986 Spider Veloce Turbo
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 05:59 AM
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A 20mm plus-or-minus in width will make a LOT of difference to steering feel.
I've experienced this on both 105 and 116 cars.
Your 205s are a LOT wider than original spec. You'll either like it or you won't.
I must say, tho, that as much as I like the wrestle (and grip) of my 195s and sports steering wheel on my current 67 GTV, I remember loving the fingertip-light steering that went with the big original steering wheel and 185s (65s I think) on my previous 65 GT.
I feel there was stuff-all loss of grip with 185s compared to the current 195s, which I bought 'because the Alfaholics cars wore 195/55'. These cars are light.
Oh, and 185s were already way bigger than the 155 originals, so I am sorely tempted to go back to 185s next time, to regain that fingertip feeling.
I wouldn't go as far as back to the tall, stiff sidewalled michelins tho. Squealed like buggery.

Last edited by Ranz; 05-26-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve105 View Post
If it's a 105 you are talking about, then these cars were not meant to run that wheel tyre set up 24/7 as it punishes 'wears out' the steering box. When they were racing GTA's with 7" wheels they could just get another new steering box from the parts bin, not a problem. Which could explain why Alfaholics have new billet ones on offer. Put the original wheels and tyres specs back on the car. If it's still 'Tram-lining' you have a worn out your steering box past it's usable specs a combination of ware over 50 years and then further accelerated ware thanks to the heavy loads of your tyre and wheel combination.
I think the steering box is one of the 'Achilles heals' of the car.
Steve
I wouldn’t think the steering box is the likely cause. You’d feel steering slop first. The later ZF boxes don’t have the same issues as the burman boxses.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranz View Post
Oh, and 185s were already way bigger than the 155 originals.
I wouldn't go as far as back to the tall, stiff side walled michelins tho. Squealed like buggery.
I think you are right the 1600 GTV's had 155 SR 15.
For Michelins closest I could find was a 155 HR 15 XAS with a height of 630 mm / 24.8"mm and width of 155 mm from this site https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...in-xas-ff.html
for the https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...rato-ca67.html

If your steering box has just been rebuilt to as new condition sure, not the the steering box, otherwise the forces of the big wheels/tyres are causing the surrounding metal work around the steering box and idler to flex or the give/play in all the 6 steering tie rods is just is too much, may be they are not Lemforder tie rods as per original specs.
Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 05-26-2019 at 07:10 AM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 06:19 AM
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According to his signature, it's an S4.

78 Spider, Webers, header, Shankle cams, bumperless, lowered, Konis
78 Sport Sedan, header, Spica
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 06:31 AM
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Jack,
From the Centerline website...see last sentence of the 1st paragraph re castor adjustment.
https://centerlinealfa.com/sites/cen...otor_specs.pdf

And this thread
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-...fications.html

Paul Leone
'72 GTV
'91 164 S
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the astute replies gentlemen. I'll ask the alignment tech about cranking in a little more caster. The current setting is 1.5 degrees.

I've experienced varying degrees of tram-lining with wider tires on several cars in the past. The issue with my S4 is not severe but if it can be minimized I'd be happy.

I'll post results.

Bill

1991 S4 Spider "Gabriela", 2017 VW Golf R, 2018 VW GTI,

Previous obsessions; 2006 Mustang GT, 2006 BMW Z4M, 5 other Bimmers, Capri V6, Renault 5, Lotus Cortina, Sunbeam Alpine, Ducati Diana Mk 3, Norton Commando
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Straw View Post
Thanks for all the astute replies gentlemen. I'll ask the alignment tech about cranking in a little more caster. The current setting is 1.5 degrees.

I've experienced varying degrees of tram-lining with wider tires on several cars in the past. The issue with my S4 is not severe but if it can be minimized I'd be happy.

I'll post results.
I’d note that Alfaholics adds even more caster than possible from stock with their geometry correction kit.

1986 Spider Veloce Turbo
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 09:39 AM
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I think we really need to know the present alignment specs......

78 Spider, Webers, header, Shankle cams, bumperless, lowered, Konis
78 Sport Sedan, header, Spica
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