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-   -   Tram-lining With Wider Tires? (https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spider-105-115-series-1966-1994/680332-tram-lining-wider-tires.html)

Jack Straw 05-25-2019 10:50 AM

Tram-lining With Wider Tires?
 
I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.

SkiBum 05-25-2019 11:07 AM

I run 205/60/14s and don't notice it any more than I think I should. Wider tires will just follow imperfections in the road just because they are wider and contact more of the surface...

slowcreek 05-25-2019 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Straw (Post 8417394)
I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.

We need to swap cars and go for a ride.

Steve105 05-26-2019 05:12 AM

If it's a 105 you are talking about, then these cars were not meant to run that wheel tyre set up 24/7 as it punishes 'wears out' the steering box. When they were racing GTA's with 7" wheels they could just get another new steering box from the parts bin, not a problem. Which could explain why Alfaholics have new billet ones on offer. Put the original wheels and tyres specs back on the car. If it's still 'Tram-lining' you have a worn out your steering box past it's usable specs a combination of ware over 50 years and then further accelerated ware thanks to the heavy loads of your tyre and wheel combination.
I think the steering box is one of the 'Achilles heals' of the car.
Steve

nealric 05-26-2019 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Straw (Post 8417394)
I'm running 205/50 Conti Extremes on 7" Rotas. Grip and response are just great but I get a bit of tram-lining on irregular pavement.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this with 205 section rubber?

The front end is freshly aligned by a very good shop and the wishbone bushings were renewed.

What were the actual specs it was aligned to?

Ranz 05-26-2019 05:59 AM

A 20mm plus-or-minus in width will make a LOT of difference to steering feel.
I've experienced this on both 105 and 116 cars.
Your 205s are a LOT wider than original spec. You'll either like it or you won't.
I must say, tho, that as much as I like the wrestle (and grip) of my 195s and sports steering wheel on my current 67 GTV, I remember loving the fingertip-light steering that went with the big original steering wheel and 185s (65s I think) on my previous 65 GT.
I feel there was stuff-all loss of grip with 185s compared to the current 195s, which I bought 'because the Alfaholics cars wore 195/55'. These cars are light.
Oh, and 185s were already way bigger than the 155 originals, so I am sorely tempted to go back to 185s next time, to regain that fingertip feeling.
I wouldn't go as far as back to the tall, stiff sidewalled michelins tho. Squealed like buggery.

nealric 05-26-2019 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve105 (Post 8417570)
If it's a 105 you are talking about, then these cars were not meant to run that wheel tyre set up 24/7 as it punishes 'wears out' the steering box. When they were racing GTA's with 7" wheels they could just get another new steering box from the parts bin, not a problem. Which could explain why Alfaholics have new billet ones on offer. Put the original wheels and tyres specs back on the car. If it's still 'Tram-lining' you have a worn out your steering box past it's usable specs a combination of ware over 50 years and then further accelerated ware thanks to the heavy loads of your tyre and wheel combination.
I think the steering box is one of the 'Achilles heals' of the car.
Steve

I wouldn’t think the steering box is the likely cause. You’d feel steering slop first. The later ZF boxes don’t have the same issues as the burman boxses.

Steve105 05-26-2019 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranz (Post 8417578)
Oh, and 185s were already way bigger than the 155 originals.
I wouldn't go as far as back to the tall, stiff side walled michelins tho. Squealed like buggery.

I think you are right the 1600 GTV's had 155 SR 15.
For Michelins closest I could find was a 155 HR 15 XAS with a height of 630 mm / 24.8"mm and width of 155 mm from this site https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...in-xas-ff.html
for the https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyr...rato-ca67.html

If your steering box has just been rebuilt to as new condition sure, not the the steering box, otherwise the forces of the big wheels/tyres are causing the surrounding metal work around the steering box and idler to flex or the give/play in all the 6 steering tie rods is just is too much, may be they are not Lemforder tie rods as per original specs.
Steve

slowcreek 05-26-2019 06:19 AM

According to his signature, it's an S4.

paulsle 05-26-2019 06:31 AM

Jack,
From the Centerline website...see last sentence of the 1st paragraph re castor adjustment.
https://centerlinealfa.com/sites/cen...otor_specs.pdf

And this thread
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-...fications.html

Jack Straw 05-26-2019 08:26 AM

Thanks for all the astute replies gentlemen. I'll ask the alignment tech about cranking in a little more caster. The current setting is 1.5 degrees.

I've experienced varying degrees of tram-lining with wider tires on several cars in the past. The issue with my S4 is not severe but if it can be minimized I'd be happy.

I'll post results.

nealric 05-26-2019 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Straw (Post 8417646)
Thanks for all the astute replies gentlemen. I'll ask the alignment tech about cranking in a little more caster. The current setting is 1.5 degrees.

I've experienced varying degrees of tram-lining with wider tires on several cars in the past. The issue with my S4 is not severe but if it can be minimized I'd be happy.

I'll post results.

I’d note that Alfaholics adds even more caster than possible from stock with their geometry correction kit.

slowcreek 05-26-2019 09:39 AM

I think we really need to know the present alignment specs......


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