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Newbie Head Job

28K views 274 replies 21 participants last post by  spydaman 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone, firs off thanks to Vin and Rich for their early guidance. I found this site thanks to Vin's "Head Gasket" thread. I myself do not own an AR, but I find myself putting one back together as it were. Since I'm a newbie here I don't know how to link things properly so allow me a little cut and paste from my first posts on Vin's thread...

I am a B- level home wrencher, I have done a head gasket replace/head planed on a Saab 900 and I have a friend with a 1987 Spider Veloce and he wanted me to do this and I said yes. Short story is I received the car with the cracked head already removed, lol. Guess someone did "half" my work. Bad news is I received all the miscellaneous parts in one big box, lol. I've sorted them and taken a photos which I hope to post. I am not a member here yet, this is a first "guest" post. Most of the pieces will be obvious to me, but I thought some of you might like to follow along this rebuild and guide me. Some questions I have since my Saab jobe didn't involve a new head: Should the head bolts be replaced (had to with the Saab)? My friend is getting a new head and having it shipped to me, should I expect it to have "manifold studs" in it, or will I have to find and buy? Should I pull and resuse the valves from the old one, or start fresh (valves scare me, lol). We'll start with this and I will register later and see if I can upload the pics I have of the miscellaneous parts all sorted out and the old head. Thank you all in advance. Oh and to add irritation from the start, I live in Hawaii, so all parts that i need will need to be shipped here, lol.

Jeff

I have another post there with beginning details and pics so i will try to link it here. Rich suggested I start this new thread, thanks Rich.
 
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#2 ·
jeff hang tight until you get the replacement head. Hopefully it has everything in it, valves, cams, manifold studs etc.
 
#4 ·
Jeff,

Welcome to the ABB. You have come to the right place and you are registered! You'll probably not be able to post photographs for a while and usually have to have 10 or so posts. Like goats said hopefully the new or newly rebuilt head will come 'fully loaded' with valves, springs, cams, adjustment shims and chain tensioner already installed.

You'll probably receive a few different opinions but go with what sounds most plausible to you. I like all o-rings and seals to be Viton because it does not get hard and leak like rubber and I like to install 'roll pins' in the block where the oil flows into the head. (My 'new engine' kit from Spruell Motorsports is on the kitchen table waiting for me to put it all together. You can also get parts from several other vendors. I like Classic Alfa in the UK and Centerline International in Co.)

I believe you can clean the head studs and nuts to reuse them. Lots of info in the engine building section too.

Also, search Youtube for tips on 'Alfa Romeo head installation'.

Mark
 
#7 ·
Thanks, Mark, the head is fully loaded as I understand it now (info came after the initial posts which I just copied/paste). It is actually coming from the Centerline place. A couple of my current questions are about the "buckets and shims", as everything was dumped in a box, I have know idea of matching original combinations; 4 of the cups had shims in them, 4 did not, but even the 4 that did I'm not sure they were there originally or just "fell" in, lol. The other is the block itself and the TC being off and not at TDC and cleaning the cylinders. If i try to rotate the crankshaft to get to TDC or to clean the cylinders, won't that f things up?

Thanks again for all help, thanks for the hello and tips, Mark

Jeff
 
#5 ·
Aloha, It appears as if now I am a member. Relative to my my earlier post, lets see if I can post some photos.

1. Things out of the box and sorted
2. Bit of a close up.
3. Bottom side of head
4. Close up of cams and journals with some whiteout applied by the unknown remover. Timing marks to be on two nearest cam gears.
5. Engine compartment

It appears as if the engine is not TDC so I'll have some issues there that I need advice on, as well as any input on the other journal placement issues. Having talked with my neighbor, more of an A home wrencher (great guy, lol) I'm hoping that my friend sends me a head with valves in it, else we're talking a whole "valve job" (nnnnooooooooo !!!)

Thanks again in advance for any feedback,

Jeff
 

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#10 ·
2 and 3 had pretty good water ingress, the piston tops cleaned up real good! You might spend some time (first lock the liners down as noted before) cleaning up 1 and 4. Check liner protrusion over block surface etc. There is an easy brooklands book to describe what to do. You got this no problem
 
#19 ·
Aloha Goats, thanks for the input. Not sure what you mean by "water ingress" though, water shouldn't have been in the cylinders, yeah? Liner protrusion doesn't appear to be an issue, as I'm cleaning the head-top, they seem flush to my sanding block. Got the lock-down sleeves issue noted, thanks
 
#13 ·
Good on you for tackling that project... Those cam journals look pretty rusty, might be something to be careful of. The cam caps should go back in the head as they are numbered for location. I don't see the funky bolt for the chain tensioner, that presses on the wedge plate, hope it's still in the front of the head. When rebooking up the timing chain you will have to be careful to get the kinks out of it along the bottom of the idler pulley. Seems way more taken apart than it needs to be.... Should be fun either way.

Cheers,
 
#22 ·
Aloha Milano, thanks for the input. How much of an issues is the rust on the journals relative to me cleaning it off? I was expecting to be able to use finegrain sandpaper/emery cloth to remove it, no? The "funky bolt" is there, score one for the good guys, lol. Check on the TC kinks. Thanks again.
 
#15 ·
After you secure the liners and you want to put the engine at compression TDC for #1 cylinder the thing you want to look at is the position of the distributor rotor. If it’s pointing forward that’s #1, if backward that’s #4. After you put the heads on the gotcha is that the cams have two index marks 180 deg apart so make sure you are using the right ones. The #1 lobes should be pointing out, away from each other.
 
#25 ·
Aloha Pilot, thanks for the input. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to tell me but I assume it's about my concern with rotating the crankshaft to move the pistons to clean the sleeves/tops and then to get #1 at TDC when appropriate, yes? Between that and the valve-clearances, the water is rising to my chin, so you might need to give me a bit more "dummies" information when the time comes, lol

Thanks again for the help
 
#26 ·
Aloha Spidey, thanks for the input. What kind of doom should I be fearing? As someone else pointed out, we can assume that water got in and cleaned 2 & 3. As for most of the rust issues, I believe/hope that most is from post-head removal weather exposure. We have hi humidity/rain out here and I'm thinking/hoping this is the cause of the major rust in 4, being as it's closest to hood opening and most exposed to rain leakage if the hood was left part open. Ahh, Hope ... she can be a temptress, lol.

Thanks again for the input, Spidey
 
#21 ·
? correct. Water/coolant doesn’t belong in the cylinders. But no doubt, that’s what happened on 2 and 3. See how clean they are (pistons)?

Head gasket blew and engine kept running for a while. That’s what cleaned up 2 and 3.

Liners should be proud of the block by 2 thou or so. I would not sand anything since you sure don’t want abrasive dust near there.
 
#27 ·
Unless you are installing new rings and honing the cylinder liners, do not clean or touch the liner bore.

There was a mention of sanding. Please don't, not just because of sanding dust getting into the engine, but sanding, even with a sanding block, will make surfaces untrue. Lately I've notice this on youtube as a way to clean old gaskets off ... like a lot of things on youtube, they are wrong.
Pete
 
#29 ·
Aloha Pete, thanks for the input .... I think, LOL. How does one then get the block face clean? How much old-gasket residue can be left on? Only so much was coming off by "scraping". And the rust in the bore? Should it be just left there? I have already apparently sinned halfway.... have cleaned/sanded half the face on the exhaust side. I have rags in the cylinders and TC compartment and was going to shopvac after cleaning as I carefully removed the rags. I was advises that the bores could be lightly cleaned with a nylon kitchen "scrubby". Again, I have no shame in being a "dummy" needing the most simplest directions and advice.

Thanks again, Pete
 
#33 ·
Aloha Pete,
Skill, huh? Maybe I need to downgrade myself from B- homewrencher to C/C+, lol. As for the pistons out and honing ... you do realize this is not MY car, right? I mean I like my friend, but he's not my wife, lol. Honing?....don't think that's happening on my shift, LOL.

I do appreciate your thoughtful and meaningful helpful knowledge, thank you. But I am merely doing the best I can to get my friend's car up and running so it can be shipped back to him from "The Islands" to "The Mainland". I don't want to cut corners, but at the same time, I know my limitations, I can only do so much. Some of the proper "perfection" issues probably won't be properly addressed.

Thanks again for your wonderful insight, help and tips, Pete
 
#39 ·
Thanks everybody, Cab...Jay...Spidey. Those are exactly the concerns I had when the car was delivered to me. He's a very good friend, Big Brother type. But I'm having him follow this blog and will email him to read these last few posts before I continue. Thanks everyone.

Jeff
 
#40 ·
Talked with my friend and he's fully aware that he'll need a complete overhaul at some point in the not too distant future. The goal here is to get the car running so that it can be shipped back to the Mainland (what we Islanders call that place most of you all live on, lol). We'll live doing the best I can to clean up what I can before putting the new head on when it arrives.

I've cleaned the cams as best as I can and will be doing the "oil caps" as well, etc. I will drain oil and remove the oil pan and clean it. What else can I clean from underneath with the oil pan removed? I'm gonna do the best I can to gently clean the cylinder sleeves and would like to rotate the crank to get to more sleeve/bore surface but am then concerned about the timing issues when I do the head/cams/chain back on.

Pics of the cleaned cams will come later. I have to have my wife use her smart phone for them and email them to me for me to download and show here. Apparently our first effort on that failed to mail, so we'll do that again and I'll post them later today.

Thanks again to everyone for your help, advice and assistance.
 
#50 ·
...would like to rotate the crank to get to more sleeve/bore surface but am then concerned about the timing issues when I do the head/cams/chain back on....
Not much to worry about there Jeff. With the head off you can clearly see when #1 piston is at TDC (#4 will be too) Whether or not that is the firing stroke will depend on where the distributor rotor is pointing. The distributor only goes in one way so it will be pointing to either #1 or #4. Even when people get them put together 180 degrees out of time all they have to do is turn the cams 180 degrees or if you are really lazy just swap the wires on the distributor cap.

Honestly, there are people out there who have actually done that and yes, it will work but it ain't the right way to put an engine together simply because the next guy will be scratching his head wondering W+F is going on.
 
#41 · (Edited)
I very much doubt you will be able to rebuild the engine without checking the cam timing with the crank at TDC, which means rotating the crank. It’s not difficult, but it is essential that it’s correct. So spin away (with the liners locked) you’re going to have to turn it at some stage anyway.

Do you have an engine rebuild manual? There are a few available online
This is not a difficult/complicated engine, but like most things - it goes together only one way

Drop the sump and clean everything. I would also pull the big ends caps (one at a time) to check for damage (unlikely, to be honest - but while you’re there, check)

Your mate may wish to consider just installing new liners and pistons/rings at this stage. Replacing with OE is not expensive (Spruell, etc) in the states. If you drop the sump you can just pull the liners and pistons as a unit and install** new ones, button it up and send it home.

** blood offerings to the completion god are necessary, swearing only gets their attention


Is it being driven to the mainland, or trucked/towed? The former will require checking/replacing the brake and fuel systems so your mate can start and stop without continual offerings to the aforementioned gods
 
#42 ·
Aloha Craig, thanks for the input. Glad to know I can "crank away" to move the pistons so that I can do what I can to clean inside the sleeves; check on locking the liners/sleeves, got that. Yes, I have an official AR manual, good to go there. "Big End Caps"? Something I'll find underneath when I drop the oil pan for cleaning? "This stage" does NOT include new liners, pistons/rings. That will have to be done by my "mate" later. He is aware of needing to redo the "bottom". Since I live in Hawai'i....it will neither be driven or towed to the Mainland, LOL. But it does have to be "drive-able" to be allowed to be put on a barge to be shipped to the Mainland. Hence the whole issue of just getting it up and running so that it can be shipped to him and then he can do whatever full repair/rebuild he wants.

Thanks again, Craig

Jeff
 
#43 ·
Pics of cleaned cams. I realize there is some serious pitting (thanks to those who mentioned it earlier) and they will need to be replaced in the very near future by my friend once he has it back in his possession. Not sure the closeup of the ends of the shafts came out so well, sorry. Ooops, added an old pic and can't get rid of it, lol. Closeup of cam ends coming next.
 

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#48 · (Edited)
Maaaate, I imagine Alfa’s are thin on the ground in the middle of the Pacific, it’s not NZ y’know ;)
No doubt most have recycled themselves back into FeO2 and crumbled away like everywhere else near a coast.

Who charges $US6,700 for a second hand donk, that’s madness!!
Bolt it together (correctly), fire it up and send it on its way

I’m yet to visit Hawaii (would love to, invite me!!)
 
#49 · (Edited)
Oh, should have checked your location. Does it need to be drivable to ship?

But yeah as Craig says, just bolt it together in all the right places. Just has to get to your mates house. He/she can always pull it apart again ...
Pete
ps: yeah that engine price is a rip off. They are $500 a piece at most. Alfa made millions of them
 
#51 ·
Aloha Everyone,

The $6,700 was what my Friend said, maybe I misunderstood him.

So I've gone ahead and continued cleaning the Head Bolts and...Bores?...Sleeves?...Linings?....what's the proper term here? I covered the block with a taped-down cardboard "template" (via Vin's headbolt tapping post) when I cleaned/sanded the bolts, then shop-vac'd and wiped/cleaned/oiled bolts well before removing it. Then used engine degreaser, toothbrush and scrubby to clean piston tops and sleeves, shop-vac'd the fluid up using small nozzle to really vacuum around piston edges, sucking up fluid/particles "up" from around the pistons. Repeated with WD40....spray, scrub, vacuum, suction, wipe with brand new terry towels, q-tips around piston edges; repeat until no rust/grime evident in WD40.

Then I cranked Cshaft and continued the cleaning process slow and carefully.

1, 2 & 3 seem real good and clean, no issues. 4 however has some significant rust buildup that I'll try and proceed slowly and carefully to remove with nylon kitchen-scrubbie unless you all tell me not too. Pics included here, but the major rust on 4 is not noticeable on the closeup. The rust is mostly on the driver's side of the cylinder and due to sunlight, not "picture friendly". Will take a pic later when the sunlight is more accommodating.

(I have not cleaned the block surface on the passenger side yet.)

Once again, Mahalo to all of you for your help.

Jeff
 

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