Newbie Head Job - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 04:32 PM
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There are gasket removing scrapers and razor blade tools designed for this process, but yes skill is required.

I did not realise the bores were rusty ... surely pistons out and honing is required?
Pete

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Last edited by PSk; 05-18-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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post #32 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vintagemilano View Post
Hi there, rust on the cam journals/lobes.... My own personal view is there should be none and the surfaces smooth, anything other than that could be slowly (or quickly) grinding the engine to death. For the journals, the steel cams are clamped in the aluminum head, whatever grit or surface roughness is there could be eating away at your aluminum bore. I would think very minor pitting might be ok but absolutely needs to be clean and smooth. The lobes would be a similar situation but steel on steel, however way more force. When the cam ramps onto the cam follower any surface imperfections would be an unexpected wear point. They might clean up very well, it's just something I noticed in the picture and wanted to caution you from reinstalling as is or just with a cursory clean. It's all good.

Cheers,
Aloha Milano, I agree the journals/lobes need to be clean and pretty-proper. Am I good to nylon-scrubby, 220 grit sandpaper to work them clean? Or is that another no-no?

Thanks for your help, Milano
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post #33 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 02:20 AM Thread Starter
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There are gasket removing scrapers and razor blade tools designed for this process, but yes skill is required.

I did not realise the bores were rusty ... surely pistons out and honing is required?
Pete
Aloha Pete,
Skill, huh? Maybe I need to downgrade myself from B- homewrencher to C/C+, lol. As for the pistons out and honing ... you do realize this is not MY car, right? I mean I like my friend, but he's not my wife, lol. Honing?....don't think that's happening on my shift, LOL.

I do appreciate your thoughtful and meaningful helpful knowledge, thank you. But I am merely doing the best I can to get my friend's car up and running so it can be shipped back to him from "The Islands" to "The Mainland". I don't want to cut corners, but at the same time, I know my limitations, I can only do so much. Some of the proper "perfection" issues probably won't be properly addressed.

Thanks again for your wonderful insight, help and tips, Pete
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post #34 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 02:25 PM
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I think my "but yes skill is required" comment came out unintentionally wrong. I did not mean you do not possess the skill.

Anyway, best of luck. You are in safe and helpful hands with this site.
Pete

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post #35 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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I think my "but yes skill is required" comment came out unintentionally wrong. I did not mean you do not possess the skill.

Anyway, best of luck. You are in safe and helpful hands with this site.
Pete
No worries, Pete, no offense was taken.
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post #36 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by koloaman View Post
Aloha Pilot, thanks for the input. I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to tell me but I assume it's about my concern with rotating the crankshaft to move the pistons to clean the sleeves/tops and then to get #1 at TDC when appropriate, yes? Between that and the valve-clearances, the water is rising to my chin, so you might need to give me a bit more "dummies" information when the time comes, lol

Thanks again for the help
Without getting too deep into it the main thing Iím telling you is that because the intake and exhaust cams on the Alfa are identical and could be used on either side they have two timing marks 180 degrees from each other. You just want to make sure you are using the right ones. The #1 lobes should be pointing away from each other with the distributor rotor pointing to #1 position.

I assume you arenít using the cams in your picture right? If you are then youíre wasting your time. Ainít gonna work. Those cams are toast.

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350
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post #37 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 09:52 PM
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I assume you aren’t using the cams in your picture right? If you are then you’re wasting your time. Ain’t gonna work. Those cams are toast.
Holy smoke, kcabpilot is right - those cams look pretty bad. So does liner #4. Has this car been sitting disassembled for awhile? (Upon reading the whole thread, I also see that vintagemilano noticed the cams in post #13).

You can remove the corrosion, but the pitted surface that remains on the cam lobes and bearings will cause further problems in short order. How do the cam followers look?


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post #38 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 03:37 AM
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Aloha Spidey, thanks for the input. What kind of doom should I be fearing?
First off, its nice that you are trying to help out a friend.

But, I fear that you are in for a lot more work that just popping back a newly rebuilt head.

As said above, the cams look like toast.
In my opinion the liners are toast, so the rings are probably toast, and.....well, you get the idea.

Then I think we can all agree that water has got in the combustion chambers, and quite a lot (to clean those pistons like that it has also been driven with water leaking in)
Now if water gets into the cylinders, it likely got down into the sump (oil pan) and if that was driven like that and left then in storage without thoroughly cleaning out the bottom end, you might well have crank journal problems too.

So yes, you could get the head back together (as you promised your friend) but there is a lot more involved.

.....depends how good a friend?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #39 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everybody, Cab...Jay...Spidey. Those are exactly the concerns I had when the car was delivered to me. He's a very good friend, Big Brother type. But I'm having him follow this blog and will email him to read these last few posts before I continue. Thanks everyone.

Jeff
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post #40 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Talked with my friend and he's fully aware that he'll need a complete overhaul at some point in the not too distant future. The goal here is to get the car running so that it can be shipped back to the Mainland (what we Islanders call that place most of you all live on, lol). We'll live doing the best I can to clean up what I can before putting the new head on when it arrives.

I've cleaned the cams as best as I can and will be doing the "oil caps" as well, etc. I will drain oil and remove the oil pan and clean it. What else can I clean from underneath with the oil pan removed? I'm gonna do the best I can to gently clean the cylinder sleeves and would like to rotate the crank to get to more sleeve/bore surface but am then concerned about the timing issues when I do the head/cams/chain back on.

Pics of the cleaned cams will come later. I have to have my wife use her smart phone for them and email them to me for me to download and show here. Apparently our first effort on that failed to mail, so we'll do that again and I'll post them later today.

Thanks again to everyone for your help, advice and assistance.
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post #41 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 04:12 PM
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I very much doubt you will be able to rebuild the engine without checking the cam timing with the crank at TDC, which means rotating the crank. It’s not difficult, but it is essential that it’s correct. So spin away (with the liners locked) you’re going to have to turn it at some stage anyway.

Do you have an engine rebuild manual? There are a few available online
This is not a difficult/complicated engine, but like most things - it goes together only one way

Drop the sump and clean everything. I would also pull the big ends caps (one at a time) to check for damage (unlikely, to be honest - but while you’re there, check)

Your mate may wish to consider just installing new liners and pistons/rings at this stage. Replacing with OE is not expensive (Spruell, etc) in the states. If you drop the sump you can just pull the liners and pistons as a unit and install** new ones, button it up and send it home.

** blood offerings to the completion god are necessary, swearing only gets their attention


Is it being driven to the mainland, or trucked/towed? The former will require checking/replacing the brake and fuel systems so your mate can start and stop without continual offerings to the aforementioned gods

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post #42 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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I very much doubt you will be able to rebuild the engine without checking the cam timing with the crank at TDC, which means rotating the crank. Itís not difficult, but it is essential that itís correct. So spin away (with the liners locked) youíre going to have to turn it at some stage anyway.

Do you have an engine rebuild manual? There are a few available online
This is not a difficult/complicated engine, but like most things - it goes together only one way

Drop the sump and clean everything. I would also pull the big ends caps (one at a time) to check for damage (unlikely, to be honest - but while youíre there, check)

Your mate may wish to consider just installing new liners and pistons/rings at this stage. Replacing with OE is not expensive (Spruell, etc) in the states. If you drop the sump you can just pull the liners and pistons as a unit and install** new ones, button it up and send it home.

** blood offerings to the completion god are necessary, swearing only gets their attention


Is it being driven to the mainland, or trucked/towed? The former will require checking/replacing the brake and fuel systems so your mate can start and stop without continual offerings to the aforementioned gods

Aloha Craig, thanks for the input. Glad to know I can "crank away" to move the pistons so that I can do what I can to clean inside the sleeves; check on locking the liners/sleeves, got that. Yes, I have an official AR manual, good to go there. "Big End Caps"? Something I'll find underneath when I drop the oil pan for cleaning? "This stage" does NOT include new liners, pistons/rings. That will have to be done by my "mate" later. He is aware of needing to redo the "bottom". Since I live in Hawai'i....it will neither be driven or towed to the Mainland, LOL. But it does have to be "drive-able" to be allowed to be put on a barge to be shipped to the Mainland. Hence the whole issue of just getting it up and running so that it can be shipped to him and then he can do whatever full repair/rebuild he wants.

Thanks again, Craig

Jeff
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post #43 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Pics of cleaned cams. I realize there is some serious pitting (thanks to those who mentioned it earlier) and they will need to be replaced in the very near future by my friend once he has it back in his possession. Not sure the closeup of the ends of the shafts came out so well, sorry. Ooops, added an old pic and can't get rid of it, lol. Closeup of cam ends coming next.
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post #44 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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Close up of cam ends.
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post #45 of 90 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:24 PM
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Just an FYI, you can purchase 2nd hand engines for these things for relatively small change. Drop in, put original engine parts in boot and ship ...

Pete

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