1974 Spider Resurrection - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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1974 Spider Resurrection

As I have posted over here, I am going to be resurrecting a spider that has been sat for 20+ years. I have a little information from the widow of the PO but not much. I am inexperienced in auto repair and maintenance and will be doing my best to document my work on this thread for posterity and for other beginners and to ask questions. At the moment, I will probably need responses a five-year-old can understand (e.g. don't forget to also get x gasket or y seal and then use w grease or z oil).

Step 1: Clean interior, exterior, engine and bay.

Step 2: Replace fuel filters and lines (and perhaps pumps) (thread/posts: 1)
- Rear filter: Wix 33299
- Front Filter: TBD pending removal/inspection

Questions Re: Fuel Filters and lines:
1. After draining pulling out the gas tank, what should I look for determine if its salvageable or should just be replaced?
2. After removing the sending pump, is it possible to test on my bench?
3. Is this 13mm fuel line correct?
4. Is this 7.5mm fuel line correct?
5. Are there any other lines, brackets or miscellany I might consider?
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Last edited by Billy_McSkintos; 04-25-2019 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Added link to a fuel line thread
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_McSkintos View Post
As I have posted over here, I am going to be resurrecting a spider that has been sat for 20+ years. I have a little information from the widow of the PO but not much. I am inexperienced in auto repair and maintenance and will be doing my best to document my work on this thread for posterity and for other beginners and to ask questions. At the moment, I will probably need responses a five-year-old can understand (e.g. don't forget to also get x gasket or y seal and then use w grease or z oil).

Step 1: Clean interior, exterior, engine and bay.

Step 2: Replace fuel filters and lines (and perhaps pumps) (thread/posts: 1)
- Rear filter: Wix 33299
- Front Filter: TBD pending removal/inspection

Questions Re: Fuel Filters and lines:
1. After draining pulling out the gas tank, what should I look for determine if its salvageable or should just be replaced?
2. After removing the sending pump, is it possible to test on my bench?
3. Is this 13mm fuel line correct?
4. Is this 7.5mm fuel line correct?
5. Are there any other lines, brackets or miscellany I might consider?
Cool, have fun! Working with gas however is never fun, so do it all once and be done.

1. If there is lots of scaly rust it will continue to flake off and clog filters. Obviously any holes and you should replace it. You can pull it, throw a bunch of bolts and nuts in it, shake it up, then clean it out and just run it for now. Buy an extra couple rear filters. They are cheap and they clog first.

2. Yes. Just apply 12V briefly. If it runs it should work. It might need a whack with a hammer to get it going. My Milano pump did after sitting for a year.

3. I think so. I also think 5/16" high pressure line works fine. There are four lines up front to replace. Also replace the lines from the pump to the hard lines.

4. There is an oil filter in the SPICA pump you should replace when you change the oil and oil filter. Replace the plugs, and buy a second set just in case you foul the first set. Again they are cheap.

Sorry I'm getting ahead of myself!

The fuel pressure switch is on the front filter. If you unplug the wire and ground it the light should come on, at least that way you can see if the light works. With a proper functioning system that light should blink on quickly then go off. Mine stays on until the alternator delivers 13V then it goes off.



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Ian Lomax - Current: 1973 Berlina, 1987 Milano Platinum "racecar"
Past: 71, 74 Spiders, 2x 74 Berlina, 74 GTV, 76 Alfetta GT, 88 Milano 3.0, 164LS
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Does anybody know how many ft of each fuel line I would need?
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 09:26 AM
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I'm guessing, it's been a while. 3 ft of 1/2" for the tank to the pump run. Then maybe 10 ft of 5/16" for the rest. You don't need high pressure fuel injection hose, max your system might hit if all the stars aligned would be 50psi, operating pressure is under 20, in the hose world, donkeys can pee harder than that. I would recommend you get a box of fuel hose, hose clamps and not use ordinary screw gear clamps, then you don't have to worry about saving every single removed clamp. Likely the big fuel filter in the engine bay will have to come from an alfa specific supplier, as will the spica oil filter and gasket. Don't run your fuel pump dry for any more than a heartbeat. It's pretty easy to get the fuel level sender out of the top of the tank, shine a flashlight in there, you will know right away if the tank is good or not.

Cheers,

Carson, 4 Alfa's, 9 Cars, 4 Motorcycles
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 09:42 AM
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You can use 5/16" / 8mm fuel line and it's available at any parts store. You can get 7.5mm line from our usual specialty suppliers like Centerline. About 8 feet should ensure you have some extra left over. And just because you don't put many miles on the car doesn't mean you should go 10 years without changing the hoses. Like most hoses, they deteriorate from the inside, so you won't necessarily know they're bad until you get a 15 psi leak in one . . . . and believe me that will spray atomized fuel all over a hot engine and cause unnecessary excitement.

I think two feet of 1/2" would be enough for the run from the tank to rear filter to the inlet port of the supply pump.

Take a tape measure to the car and get a rough estimate.

This line does not need to be "Fuel Injection" line. Regular fuel line is ok since the SPICA supply system pressure is only about 15 psi, vice about 50 psi in EFI systems.

With regards to the supply pump, you can remove it and pour fresh gasoline in it and let it sit then pour out, rinse and repeat a few times and see if you're getting varnish and crud out of it. It's ok to test run the pump only momentarily dry on the bench. Only enough to say, yea, it actually rotates. Be prepared to have any residual fuel shoot out of it however. The reason we don't run these pumps dry is that fuel is used to cool and lubricate the pump. They are wet pumps with the electrical motor immersed in fuel. Since in the sealed system there is no air to support combustion, there is no fire danger.

You may get lucky and have a fuel pump that was sitting derelict for 20 years actually work, but don't count on it. And if it does, how much long it runs is a crap shoot.

Here's a short rant . . . I you want to badly damage a SPICA injected Alfa, just let it sit for years with stale gasoline and mounting corrosion. OR, you could take a few hour or so and drain all the fuel, remove, pickle, and store in a dry temperate place, the fuel supply pump and blow the system out.

Finally, when installed back into the car with a clean tank and new rear fuel filter, run the outlet hose into a small fuel container and run a gallon or so through it before hooking it into the car's system. Obviously, you need to take good precautions when dealing with open fuel.

Also, make sure the wiring to the pump and ground is in good condition, clean and tight without corrosion. Make sure you're getting full voltage at the supply pump's positive wire. Check your fusebox for corrosion as well. A leaky convertible top lets water sit in the footwells, which evaporates up under the dash and corrodes everything.

And we haven't even started to see how damaged the injection pump is from sitting derelict for 20 years.

Read the guide. It should answer most of your questions.

John Stewart
74 Spider
91 164S

Last edited by Roadtrip; 04-26-2019 at 09:52 AM.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Read the guide. It should answer most of your questions.
Thank you!
Does 'the guide' refer to the SPICA documentation you sent previously?
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 10:33 AM
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Yes. The Fuel Supply System Diagnostics Guide.

John Stewart
74 Spider
91 164S
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you!
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Step 1 - Cleaning

Gave her a wash today. Nothing too crazy or deep at this stage but enough that I won't get filthy just looking at her.

I have a bunch of old parts to go through; I found the badges and 2 SPICA pumps in trunk. Lord knows what else...

Clutch pedal is stuck to floor. Could be a new clutch pedal pivot arm? There was also an oily mess inside the engine around and below the brake power cylinder.

Step 2 - Fuel System
I think I'll drain and remove the fuel tank and decide whether to clean or replace with a new one.
Will test the sending pump and likely buy new fuel line and clamps this week.
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Last edited by Billy_McSkintos; 04-27-2019 at 08:46 PM.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-27-2019, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_McSkintos View Post
Gave her a wash today. Nothing too crazy or deep at this stage but enough that I won't get filthy just looking at her.

I have a bunch of old parts to go through; I found the badges and 2 SPICA pumps in trunk. Lord knows what else...

Clutch pedal is stuck to floor. Could be a new clutch pedal pivot arm? There was also an oily mess inside the engine around and below the the area at 5'oclock in the engine bay picture.

Step 2 - Fuel System
I think I'll drain and remove the fuel tank and decide whether to clean or replace with a new one.
Will test the sending pump and likely buy new fuel line and clamps this week.
After her first bath she looks like a very nice car!

Doug

Doug
1989 Spider Quadrifoglio S3 (Black)
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 02:06 AM
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You've gotta call that a win, already.
Fingers crossed the rest of the resurrection efforts are as shiny.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 05:24 AM
Regarding the clutch pedal - it's most likely a bad master cylinder. They are pretty cheap and easy to remove. Once off you'll know right away if your pedal pivot is the problem. I imagine you'll be going through the whole system anyway. I'd replace the three flex lines right off the bat. They rot from the inside so don't trust them just because they look good. Ditto for the clutch flex line.

Regarding the fuel tank - if it's badly scaled I wouldn't mess with having it coated. New ones are cheaper than sending the old one out and I've had nothing but trouble with the DIY coating kits.

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 07:20 AM
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I use a local radiator shop that coats mine for me. Cheaper than a new tank.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 07:57 AM
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If you won't mess up your driveway, get some degreaser and carefully hose down the engine bay. Mask around & spraypaint the radiator top, battery box, and brake booster. Use a brass wire brush on the cam cover. It will look 1000% better and be more pleasant to work on.

BTW, in case you're really new to Spider's, '74's are the year everyone wants (after the Duettos).

To me few things are more satisfying that turning something that's been run down into a gem. You've got a plum there.

David O'D
Laguna CA
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 08:43 PM
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Hi Billy,
This is a link to my 74 restoration thread. It would be a good read for you to help you see what is involved.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car...g-my-74-a.html

Gary
74 Spider - Completed; Tuning Weber's
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