How To Get 1985 Spider Running Again? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Question How To Get 1985 Spider Running Again?

I am very fortunately to be inheriting my father in law 1985 Spider and I was hoping members could help point me in the right direction on how to get the car running safely again. Has about 66K and it’s been sitting in the garage for the past 17 years. Quick visual inspection, I noticed oil pools above the spark plugs and a leaky diff (I think?). I prefer to have a shop do most of the serious repairs since my mechanical skills are very basic.

• What are must do repairs? I assume replace all fluids/gas, brakes, battery, tires, and spark plugs/wires?

• Could you recommend a shop in the Bay Area (South/East bay preferred) to service the car? It appears Continental Motors in Sunnyvale and Roselli Foreign Car Repair in San Jose seem reputable.

• Do you have a rough ballpark how much all the work would cost?


Open to any other feedback or input.

Best,
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 08:13 AM
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Awakening a sleeper is never as simple as kissing them on the cheek and then driving off happily ever after together.

Realistically speaking, you are possibly looking at a couple thousand dollars to have a shop fully resurrect the car, although it’s hard to guess accurately from cyberspace without even a photo. Some things are easy and obvious predictions though. You are going to need to flush and replace all the fluids - coolant, oil, transmission fluid, and differential oil. You are going to have to replace all the belts and hoses, including the brake hoses. In fact, it’s pretty safe to bet that you will need to replace the brake calipers, proportioning valve, and brake master cylinder. Brake fluid draws moisture, and after 17 years these will all be badly rusted. Brake rotors, perhaps, depending on luck and climate. Clutch Master Cylinder, almost assuredly will have failed as well. New tires and a new battery are also obvious necessities as are fuel, oil and air filters. I, based on my experience with wakening a sleeper, would expect that you will definitely need a new water pump as well. You might be able to put that off for a while, but that old devil rust will eventually make it fail. Speaking of that old devil rust, your gas tank will need to be removed, flushed, and coated to cover any rust which has developed over 17 years.

The internal needs of the engine are a question mark. Alfa engines are very good engines and easily rebuildable if necessary. Your car’s engine will probably be fine -if- the rings aren’t frozen to the cylinder walls to the point where the cylinder sleeves need to be replaced. Probably not, but your mechanic will still have some hours in oil-soaking the rings to free them, inspecting the bores, and doing a compression test, replacing the plug wires, etc. A bright spot is that your 1985 has the Bosch electronic fuel injection; it’s very reliable, and since it was used on some BMWs as well as Alfas, parts and knowledge are plentiful.

There may be some electrical glitches, but generally speaking they’ll be more annoying than serious. English cars are notorious for electrical faults from poor quality and bad design, but on an Alfa, the problem is almost always a bad ground.....somewhere.

The real completely unpredictable wild card is:

Why did the car stop moving to begin with? If there was a problem that caused it to be left in the garage 17 years ago, that’ll have to be fixed. Also note if the car has a lot of miles on it that there may be some deferred maintenance to do; things that would be necessary on any high mileage car, such as ball joints, etc.

Finally, be aware that on a good day, a 1985 Alfa Spider is worth about 7-10 thousand dollars. Having a shop resurrect the car may increase its value but leave any profit margin from having done that to about the same number you could get for selling the car as is to someone who could do this work themselves.

Others will give you more detailed and valuable information, but this will give you something to start from.

71 Spider
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 08:53 AM
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I’m motivated to expand on Lokki’s Good advice. I faced exactly the case you describe when I bought an 86 Soider that had been sitting for about 10 years. It had been stored in dry, dark storage in Northern CA, so some problems were minimal.

I’m a fairly well trained and equipped mechanic. Thus, I faced little to no labor costs in resurrecting my car.

I spent around $4,000 in parts to make the car safe to drive. Here’s a brief list, but I’m sure I’ll leave out some things.

Main fuel pump
In-tank pump
All new injectors
Ignition wires
Spark plugs
All new filters
All liquids changed
Water pump
Fan
Alternator
Battery
Rebuild calipers
Brake pads
All brake hoses
Several front suspension components
All shocks
New tires
Seat covers (leather was rock hard)
VVT solenoid
VVT harness
Thermotime switch
Air intake tube
Engine mounts
Trans mount
Exhaust hangers
New speakers
Adjust valves
Radiator hoses
Fuel lines
Valve cover gasket

I was lucky that the top was good, and the engine internals were healthy. Mostly.

If you can’t do most of the work, your total cost to make the car safe may equal it’s market value

Good luck

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...

Last edited by DPeterson3; 04-23-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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I really appreciate the feedback. My father in law was diagnose with cancer and no longer capable of driving. Sounded like the car drove fine at the time but I don’t believe it was prepped for storage. I don’t plan on selling the car, I attached a few pictures below. Still trying to wrap my head around the amount of work required getting this car back on the road.

Any recommendations on what repairs to work on first? Should I take the car to a shop for inspection or fix things myself first and then bring it in after?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 05:13 PM
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Hi there, definitely some good advise above. I would be tempted to do things differently, these cars are not hard to work on, you have found a treasure trove of knowledge, support and motivation here at the BB. Start tackling things yourself. Get it running, clean the spark plug wells really well, take the plugs out, squirt some oil in there, get the gas out, put new stuff in it, see if the fuel pumps run, just leave it up on well positioned jack stands. Change the engine, trans, diff oil, flush the brake fluid, change air and fuel filters, then see if it runs. Nothing I've mentioned is hard, no different skill wise than taking a wheel off and putting a wheel on. You can do it. If you are near a local Alfa club, sign up with them. Start down the path of enjoying the ownership experience. Farm out individual jobs that you feel are more than you want to tackle as those jobs crop up.

Cheers,
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Carson, 4 Alfa's, 9 Cars, 4 Motorcycles

Last edited by vintagemilano; 04-23-2019 at 07:39 PM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 07:25 PM
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AR_Grad27,

Let me begin by wishing your Father-in-Law a good outcome.

As BB Legends Don and Lokki have observed in considerable detail, the road to safe streetability for your Spider will almost surely be long and paved with $$$ and I fear the cost of professional intervention will likely prove a major impediment to even minimal roadworthiness. Like many others on AlfaBB, I would never have been able to afford Bella without my own wrenching, although perhaps surprisingly the cost of essential parts, while cumulatively significant, was manageable over my many years of ownership.

You mentioned the “...car drove fine at the time...”, which is certainly encouraging, although signs of neglect and deferred maintenance obviously abound in your excellent photos. Overtightened valve cover gaskets (oil in plug wells), a failed front crankshaft seal (that Exxon Valdez level oil mess at the front of the engine) and other apparently defective seals and fluid leaks indicate your FiL, like those car enthusiasts who mainly enjoy driving, was not overly troubled by cosmetics. As long as you don’t look under the hood often, park over cardboard and the car soldiers on, many of the issues in your photographs can be endured.

I know...

My approach would be to follow Lokki’s advice and begin by determining the condition of the engine, specifically if it is frozen.

Without investing in a new battery, it is possible to turn a non-seized engine (plugs out) by using a breaker bar on the large nut which secures the vibration damper to the front of the crankshaft. Access from above is difficult and putting the car on jack stands is advised and should be something you can do in the garage. Of course, if your FiL added an oil pan guard, that will need to come off too. Don’t lift the car too high, or you will bump into that “parking assist” hanging from the ceiling.

“First, do no harm.”

I’ve suggested checking the engine as a first step, since if it is found to be seized, all the downsides Lokki mentioned (rusted liners to be replaced, etc.) would necessitate pulling the engine. And as with nearly all vintage machinery, additional discoveries would certainly present, adding quickly to your expense.

In conclusion, I believe a frozen engine would be my signal to proclaim “Check please!”.

But hey!

Maybe the engine will turn easily and a flush of the fuel system, from tank to injectors, a new battery (or a jump?) may bring her to life. (Since you are only performing a brief “reality check” by idling for a few minutes, I wouldn’t bother doing coolant and oil R&R...just make sure there’s enough of both in there. And keep RPM under 1500!).

Actually, a running engine might ultimately be a bad thing since, after determining the engines idles without overheating, and the clutch and brakes have a degree of function, you might be tempted to make a short jaunt about the neighborhood.

After that, I fear you will be hooked on Alfas and there will be no turning back!

Keep us posted and welcome to the Forum.

OK, signing off.

Best.

Steve Waclo Carson City, NV; '87 Spider QV, ES Champion, 2018 Reno SCCA (125k);'93 Honda Nighthawk 750 (105k);'03 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD Turbo Diesel (155k);'08 Altima Coupe 3.5SE, 6sp (125k)
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 08:52 PM
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I’d wager the full price of your oil change that an L-Jet Alfa sitting for 16 years won’t start.

Where are you located,AR Grad?

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 01:09 AM
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that looks like a perfect project. A very original car and looks extreemly solid.

There is a big difference between sitting in a damp old barn for 17 years and sitting in what looks like a nice private garage for 17 years.

imo, there is nothing you can't do on your own to try get it going again.
If you own an alfa you will have to learn how to work on it. I got my first car when I was 17, an alfa sprint, running on 3 cylinders....I bought a shop manual and took the engine apart and put it back with all new parts. In pre internet days you couldn't just type in a problem and wait for an answer....you had to phone someone and try explain where you were stuck at...

If you just drop that off at a shop and tell them to get it going, you'll be a few thousand out of pocket, and won't have learned a thing.

you need to start somewhere, so first I would see if after 17 years idleness, the engine turns:
remove the oil from the spark wells (this is caused by the cam cover gasket that has squished out of place)
remove all plugs (you'll have to remove that big hose over the engine to get at no.#2 plug)
squirt a bit of fresh oil down the plug holes (or WD40 would be ok)
roll the car backwards out of the garage a few yards (from the photo, it looks like there is no slope, if there is be aware you will likely have no brakes!)

now....
put car in 4th gear
gently push car forwards back into garage, if it rolls, the engine is turning and is not seized.

break out a beer, first problem solved....
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the guidance! After poking around on the technical FAQ page, I am feeling a bit more comfortable attempting to work on the car myself. Going to look for a workshop manual and push the car in gear to find out if the engine is seized.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 11:30 AM
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I agree - the pictures show a car that has been sitting but otherwise in decent shape. If you are willing to learn and have average mechanical ability I think the best person to revive the car is you! If the engine isn't seized the most likely things it will need are cleaning all electrical connections, servicing the fuel injectors and fresh fluids.

If your car has the older style 'bullet' fuses I suggest replacing all of them. I prefer the ones with a brass strip - the ones with an aluminum strip can somehow look OK but fail to allow electrons to pass. Clean the contacts where the fuses sit (a toothbrush sized brass bristle brush works well), too.

For fuel injector service they need to be removed and sent out to a place that cleans them with solvents in an ultrasonic bath. I used Cruizin Performance. The hoses should be replaced - by now the rubber has deteriorated. Cruizin Performance may be able to do that as part of their service (at an additional cost) or you can DIY. The short fuel rail to injector hoses are a not common size - 7.5mmID (1/4" is too small, 5/16" is too large). I bought a few feet from an Alfa supplier and a VW supplier. Note there is a small rubber seal and a small hard (plastic?) seat where the injectors fit into the intake. The hard seat is NLA (No Longer Available) so do not lose them!

See the link in my signature to a page of info about the L-jet system in our cars. And keep posting here - ask questions and post photos as you go. Join a local Alfa club - you'll likely find the members there would be willing to help, too.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 01:20 PM
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Don P gives good advice, but makes it sound worse than it probably is, to start, as some components will not go bad from sitting, and much of the work can be done piecemeal as time goes by. Ideally, yes, you would probably want most of the things Don mentioned done at one time or another to finally get the car in a cherry fully reliable condition, but there is no rush, IMO.

First, buy a workshop manual. Either a paper version, or the disc. Read through the owner's manual a couple of times, and peruse the work shop manual closely.

Change all fluids, ie, oil (and filter), coolant, brake and clutch fluid. Clean the residue oil in the wells (don't worry about cleaning up the oil around the engine at this point, as Alfa engines can be somewhat leaky (marking their spot?) and then when cleaned later, you will be able to see where major leaks might be. Remove the plugs and see if the engine will turn over by hand. If it does, install new plugs after removing the cam cover, replacing the gasket (do not over tighten).

That's a start. Then drain the fuel, change the fuel filter, add new fuel (with a bottle of cleaner such as Techron). Change the battery. Change the associated engine belts although probably not necessary if just seeing if the engine starts. For actual driving, of course new belts.

Take your time, you can do these things.

Now I think it is safe to try to start the engine. If it does, ok, keep revs low and watch the oil pressure gauge and the alt light. If it doesn't, check the distributor cap and rotor for corrosion deposits and general filthiness. Clean or replace, your choice, depending on condition.

Then jack the car up a corner at a time and see if each of the wheels can be rotated, or if they are frozen in place. If free, fine. If not, you will have to then address that problem, taking off the wheels and looking at the condition of the discs, ie, glued to the pads. Eventually you will want to fully check the brake pads/discs, but not yet I think, as unless corroded together, they will be relatively ok yet. Gentle driving fore and aft in the driveway will give you an idea of the clutch and brake system, to start. Keep in mind that the brakes will not be all that good at first, but if in ok condition generally, they will rebed and should work ok, unless a caliper is frozen, requiring replacement or rebuilding.

Install new tires before doing any real street driving, as the old ones are basically unusable and unsafe or road work.

As you start to drive the car, you will then start thinking about the additional work Don recommends. The workshop manual, and the BB, as well as local owners, will be able to help you with that.

My suggestions anyway. Should end up with a sweet car.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 04-25-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 09:03 PM
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Nice Unmolested Spider, not the most popular color, but clean. It was probably parked because it didn't pass California Smog testing which is another hurdle to putting it on the road. I doubt the engine is frozen from sitting in dry San Jose. Take the plugs out and put a tablespoon of oil in each cylinder then put in a new battery, turn the key to see if it cranks and the fuel pump runs. If it does, pump the gas out of the tank and replace it with new fuel, put new or clean plugs back in, check oil/fluids, then try to start it. If it starts, you have something and you can do all the other defererred maintainance like checking the hydraulics, peddles shouldn't stay on the floor. If it doesn't start, then you can decide wether to put more money in it or sell it as is.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 09:28 PM
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My 71 spent 18years in a garage before I got her. It took me 4 years to get her up and running. I did all the work myself with the exception of the syncros. Thank goodness for the help of the B.B. that was 8 years ago and I have barely touched a wrench since. I think I may have put 3-4K into her but don’t regret a dime. I believe I replaced every item on the lists posted previously plus’s a few. Suspension bushing come to mind. Take your time. You won’t regret it
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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Hi there AR_Grad,

I too inherited my father's '85 Spider Veloce, it's bittersweet to say the least. My Dad bought his new in San Francisco and loved it, I tried buying it from him many times but it was his baby. For a variety of reasons he drove it very little over the last 10 years but still loved the car. I agree with everyone regarding next steps but have to add from my personal experience that working on my Dad's car over the past year has really helped me feel closer to him. My family is also happy that I've taken over, we all agree we want to keep the car in the family and I've already done a ton of maintenance and am getting her "road-trip ready."

I do have a request... can you please take a close up photo of the yellow sticker next to the air cleaner? Mine peeled off years ago and I can't read what the text says.

Good Luck with the Spider! I'm waaayyy out in the East Bay, past Concord, otherwise I'd offer to swing by to help with your Spider.

C

1985 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce

Last edited by Cosimo; 04-26-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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