Hot engine- no start - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hot engine- no start

Sorry for another no start thread but stuck in parking lot and have tablet so thought would post.
89 Grad starts fine when Cold and runs fine. Turn off engine. Turn key on, hear pumps, good cranking power but just no firing. Assume heat related. Will do all things in the other no start posts just thinking maybe someone has best place to start. Do relays get hot and malfunction?
Again, runs fine at temp, idle good, no issues. Just won't restart when engine hot,
Recently replaces both fuel pumps and filter. Cleaned up connections at coil and all grounds. Something is just not happy when hot.
Thanks for any ideas. Hopefully will cool down enough to start and can get home.

Craig
1989 Graduate
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 01:39 PM
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1st thing is check for spark whilst cranking.
Got spark? yes?
then move on to fuel supply. (relay, 8A bullet fuse holder etc)
No spark? then think about flywheel sensors

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for response.
Was reading up on sensors. Will put on ohm meter and check.
Replaced bullet fuse with blade
Still in parking lot ��

Craig
1989 Graduate
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castrique View Post
Still in parking lot ��
oh dear!

it is only worth checking the flywheel sensors if you have no spark....that's why it is imperative in a no-start situation to check spark first and foremost. If you have spark, then all that side of the system is good (coil connections, battery cranking voltage, sensors, grounds etc)...and you can then start looking at fuel delivery problems.

I always keep a spare sparkplug in the glovebox, much easier to clip that onto one of the leads than removing a plug and testing that way (especially if you do not have a sparkplug wrench in the trunk!)

one thing you could try (if suspecting a relay) is get a short length of wire, remove the fuel relay (the big one near the ecu) and bridge/jump the relay socket between pins #30 & #87.........will it now start?
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Good top about extra spark plug. Got a ride home so can get some tools and start checking things

Craig
1989 Graduate
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 02:53 PM
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Do as @spiderserie4 suggests, and start with spark. It cuts the troubleshooting flowchart in half.

Be methodical about troubleshooting; don't skip around...you'll only confuse yourself and muddy the situation.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Well.....drove other car to parking lot thinking would call tow truck. Spider Started right up, idle good. Drove fifty yards to stop light, car quit did start after third crank. Drove home fine. Turned off in garage and it restarted. So hard to diagnose intermittent problem. Still thinking when car gets hot something is failing.Will let idle for a while and maybe can get not start condition in garage where I can test for spark, test coil, etc. any suggestions welcome
Thanks

Craig
1989 Graduate
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 07:22 AM
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I know how intermittant problems can send one nuts

I had similar with my S4. Started right up in the morning, drove perfect. Stopped at the local supermarket, went shopping then came out (engine still warm) and no start. If I left the car and came back later, it started right up.....sent me crazy!!
I had a spare plug handy to test it quickly for spark, and was able to see that when it would not start, it had no spark.

So it is imperative to immediately check for spark the next time it won't start. You could even leave one of those in-line spark testers (10 bucks or so) between one of the plugs and the plug lead.

The problem with mine - and I did every known test on ever single item, and all were within specs - turned out to be the CS, the Crank sensor (you don't have that on your L-jetronic, but you do have 2 flywheel sensors that do the same job) The end of the sensor had a bad build up of sticky crud on the end, somehow effecting the signal...although the ohms and volt tests proved perfect.

But its good to be at home with tools, that's for sure

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 08:12 AM
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Since it had the no start issue after driving it 50 yds. It makes me question if it is heat related. I would be looking for an electrical issue, sensors, fuse box, loose grounds, etc.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for replies. Pulled plug, strong spark. Pulled fuel line at FPR, no fuel flow. Now don't hear fuel pumps which were both replaced a few months ago. While relays click loudly am thinking fuel relay may be defective. I see there are other post about jumping relay. Will either try that or just get replacement.

Craig
1989 Graduate
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 04:20 PM
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Apply external 12V to pumps first. Tank pump can easily be heard when jumping at tank flange. Inline pump easy to check if you can get your head under the car. I suspect your pumps are fine. If you have less than 1/2 tank and in tank pump is bad the inline pump is not strong enough on its own to deliver fuel.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 06:01 AM
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Hi Craig, good advice above from skibum just to confirm the pumps are ok.

Do you have a Jim Neil (papajam) wiring diagram? If not, I can send you one for an '88 that will likely be helpful. Among possible problems, a poor electrical connection to the pumps is high on my list. Let me know if you need more information.

Rich Hanning
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 10:41 AM
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Did you check the infamous bullet fuse under the parcel shelf. either way , remove it and splice in a spade fuse .

1988 Spider Graduate (Sofia)
'06 Ford Explorer
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quartrsawn View Post
Did you check the infamous bullet fuse under the parcel shelf. either way , remove it and splice in a spade fuse .
yep, he's done that (post#3)

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all
Didn't get to run 12v to pumps yet. Over 1/2 tank, in tank pump with sock filter replaced last month, main pump 2 months ago. Doubt they both failed but who knows. Blade fuse in tact.
I try to read as many posts as possible so as to not ask redundant questions .
Thought was hot engine related so posted as maybe something new but alas two no restarts after Cold start without engine getting hot confirmed I was on wrong track.

Was hoping to go to
Charlotte for 13th annual Italian car/bike/scooter event but alas had to stare at my Alfa in the garage- looks good when parked ��

Craig
1989 Graduate
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