105 Headers Comparison/shootout! - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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engine exhaust

Boston Bertone, I run a similar setup in my 2Liter with 85mm applebites, RJ's cams, (same part numbers using105LC int and 108LC ex, and 3inch Magnaflows exhaust to the back, and yes, badass noise at rpm and fairly quiet in "normal" driving.
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post #32 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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The design of headers like Spruell's along with the similar Darstan headers sold by both Vintage Customs Alfa and Wes Ingram show a curved #3 primary in very close proximity to both the steering box and brake master cylinder. If you are running these headers it is a very good idea to fabricate a heat shield between the primaries and the other components. Looking at the original Alfa TI Super/GTA headers along with modern interpretations is a good indication that there is some disagreement over whether there is any advantage to be gained by designing such all-equal-length primaries.

As Ed's photo shows, there are lots of very stout engines running headers with designs similar to the original TI Super/GTA's. With this in mind I chose the full Alfaholics system for my hot-rod 2 liter build. In all my years of Alfa driving I've never had headers that didn't require at least a small amount mechanical persuasion in order to fit properly. Not so with the AH full stainless system. I was mentally preparing for a session of skinned knuckles and the obligatory blood sacrifice but to my great surprise the AH headers slipped right on with no trouble at all. Initially, the sound of the AH exhaust system was a little louder than a stock exhaust. It was a good sound although lacking in some of the drama that we closet "boy-racers" might like. Over time, however, the AH exhaust has opened up and now has a real Jekyll and Hyde character---relatively quiet around town but definitely prominent as the revs go up.
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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #33 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BostonBertone View Post
I have the Spruel Headers in my 1750.

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/eng...0-rebuild.html

The engine has 10:1 overbore Spruel pistons for ~1870 displacement
Custom shorter guides, and new seals. Narrow valve stems (BMW I think). Ported and matched to the intake. Work done by Progressive in WA.
Rj cams: Intake: 429, Exhaust: 776 (11.3 lift)
40DCOE webers with 34mm venturi

135hp @ 7400 rpm according to one dyno.

The issue with these headers so far is clearance and heat. They are coated but still throw a lot of heat and are close to the brake booster and air can for my cross over intake (Euro 68 GTV 1750). I've considered wrapping them or coming up with some sort of heat shield. Still torn on how to go there.

They look very cool and the sound is good except for a distinct drone at 4K. (Talked with Paul and it is common if you run a single silencer) I have the stocks pipes with the rear silencer and a stinger so I may opt to redo the pipes in the same diameter as the header (2.5" I think) and run two Borla or Magnaflow silencers. My friend says it sounds like a Ferrari when you go through the range.
peak power at 7400 is extremely high for a street motor. 135hp at reckon at the wheels?
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post #34 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:34 PM
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135hp @ 7400 rpm according to one dyno.
How did he measure RPM? The right way is from an ignition pickup. A less satisfactory method is where the operator "calibrates" from the roller rpm. If he overestimates it you get inflated HP (torque * rpm) and rpm. If he underestimates it you get low HP and a great torque curve at low rpm.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #35 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 07:58 PM
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Im in the same camp as others, the Spruell headers coated are the best bang fpr the buck performance wise.
Im able to get them in n out without drama on my race car, but they are tight n theres no room for hickups. Im dealing with vibration at full tilt that makes me think my motor mount needs replacement or shimming.

I also agree sound is factored more with intake n exhaust than the headers. I have quieted both my racers recently. The GTV got ss rear pipe added, the spider got a bolt in CA system. Both have webers with minimal filters n are rev happy, full on race engines. They still sound amazing.

For a street car, my gut tells me go w a stainless system n then go drive it.

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #36 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:22 PM
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For a street car, my gut tells me go w a stainless system n then go drive it.
On our fall tour in November I had a couple (visiting profs from Italy, I think) following me because they liked the sound my hot-rod Super made with its c/r gears and stainless Alfaholics exhaust. That was fun and it does sound good when driven hard. Then my motor blew up: cracked head, blown head gasket, sundry failures, etc. We're doing a rebuild now . . .

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #37 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Iím currently running, stock headers, Original California cat, borla mid pipe and a stinger.

Would love a little more volume!

Are you guys sure a set of Alfaholics headers and maybe a new catalytic converter wonít put a grin on my face?

Unfortunately I have to run the Bosch fuel injection system so I donít have Webberís ..

Does anyone know if a cold air intake would make me happy sound wise? (Are they even available anywhere??)
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post #38 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:28 PM
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Woosh! VERY NICE!



*Partially* disagree on that blanket statement, kind sir. Primary lengths do alter the sound significantly, and so does overall header configuration (4 to 1, 4-2-1, etc...)

I bet a Spruell header (equal length 4-2-1) sounds different from a Sperry (equal length 4 to 1), which sounds different from a Shankle/Centerline/Vick's/Alfaholics (slightly unequal length 4 to 1.)
My comment was made because TS seems to have no interest in performance from headers. So I recaal a job I did for a GTV 2000 from a friend of mine. He wanted nicer deeper sound , no screamer. So we just made a mufflerless tailpipe in ED 60 , thick wall. Result nice deep sound, and on a trackday much nicer sound than many cars with headers.
total investment a few bob for the pipe, and some welding by myself.
So if sound is the thing, and performance does not matter why spend a lot on a header..
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post #39 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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My comment was made because TS seems to have no interest in performance from headers. So I recaal a job I did for a GTV 2000 from a friend of mine. He wanted nicer deeper sound , no screamer. So we just made a mufflerless tailpipe in ED 60 , thick wall. Result nice deep sound, and on a trackday much nicer sound than many cars with headers.

total investment a few bob for the pipe, and some welding by myself.

So if sound is the thing, and performance does not matter why spend a lot on a header..


ED60? What is that?

I already have a stinger pipe
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post #40 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 11:31 PM
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If stinger is yet again another muffler, try removing it. Doubt a cold air would make much dif noise wise for the better. Stock headers n ss Borja mid should be ok. Loosing the cat, would also wake it up. 😋

Peter Inshaw 59 Touring Spider 2.0, 63 Spider 1600, 67 GTV 1750, 91 Spider Veloce, 2018 Stelvio TI Sport
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post #41 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 01:15 AM
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ED60? What is that?

I already have a stinger pipe
external diameter, need to corroct btw: it was a pipe with 60 ID, internal diameter.
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post #42 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 02:05 AM
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I knew ID and OD (outer), never ED.. everyday’s a school day

'66 1600 Duetto | '73 1600 GTJunior | '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon | '11 Giulietta QV (wow, revelation) | I really don't need this many Alfa's...
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post #43 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 02:21 AM
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these headers are fitted to my squadra bianca racecar 30+ years, they are 4 to 1, and it states "BSM" on them, anybody knows them?
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post #44 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 180OUT View Post
The design of headers like Spruell's along with the similar Darstan headers sold by both Vintage Customs Alfa and Wes Ingram show a curved #3 primary in very close proximity to both the steering box and brake master cylinder. If you are running these headers it is a very good idea to fabricate a heat shield between the primaries and the other components. Looking at the original Alfa TI Super/GTA headers along with modern interpretations is a good indication that there is some disagreement over whether there is any advantage to be gained by designing such all-equal-length primaries.

As Ed's photo shows, there are lots of very stout engines running headers with designs similar to the original TI Super/GTA's. With this in mind I chose the full Alfaholics system for my hot-rod 2 liter build. In all my years of Alfa driving I've never had headers that didn't require at least a small amount mechanical persuasion in order to fit properly. Not so with the AH full stainless system. I was mentally preparing for a session of skinned knuckles and the obligatory blood sacrifice but to my great surprise the AH headers slipped right on with no trouble at all. Initially, the sound of the AH exhaust system was a little louder than a stock exhaust. It was a good sound although lacking in some of the drama that we closet "boy-racers" might like. Over time, however, the AH exhaust has opened up and now has a real Jekyll and Hyde character---relatively quiet around town but definitely prominent as the revs go up.
Spruell and Darstan are not similar, Darstan has smaller ID (same ED) . , thicker wall tubing used . Is definitley also more weight than Spruells header.
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post #45 of 126 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 09:03 AM
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i do have an offering for suspended pedal cars. can check it out at performatek.com - in the exhaust section, oddly enough. the design is 4>1, equal length stepped tube header. correct head/exit geometry (tubes in line with direction of ports). merge collector. custom built to order, available in a couple of diameter tubes and a lengths from 30">35" - although i do have my favorites, i.e. works best for most alfas. fits both ZF & Burman steering box. in fact, having a run made now.
andy
p.s. installed pic is on 85 Ljet spider... how i found out that zF steering boxes are different than burman!
p.p.s. also agree, headers contribute very little to sound.
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