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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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89 Spider, Stupid Question!

On the flywheel, on an 89 injected model there is a pin or dowel that triggers the ignition computer. My question is: is there one or two of these pins? A picture would be nice?

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 03:56 PM
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Yes, there is a small nib (not sure what is the correct name) for the position (timing) sensor. I think the speed (RPM) sensor 'reads' the ring gear's teeth. And thus there is a specified orientation to install the flywheel (it is not doweled to the crankshaft - it can be installed in six positions - five wrong & one right).

For more info about the L-jet system in our cars see the link in my signature.
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- - Eric
don't read this
~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I installed the flywheel as per the Alfa manual. So there is only one pin on the flywheel? I built the engine a few years ago then I pulled apart the engine in my 87, parts car, there are two pins 180 out from each other? So I’m confused. This engine ran well too?

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Last edited by farina; 12-26-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-26-2018, 05:26 PM
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First I've heard of a two pin flywheel. Anyone else have any more info to add?

- - Eric
don't read this
~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
Mebane, North Carolina


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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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My flywheel. Sorry for the links, I can’t figure out how to actually post a picture. I’ll have to wait till one of my sons comes to visit and one of them will show me.


https://imgur.com/xO79p17
http://imgur.com/kIxg4y8
http://imgur.com/gkeh7K0

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 02:20 AM
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that second 'pin' is just a bolt some PO stuck in there.....that isn't original (but why is it there is the question?) Perhaps a PO put it there to somehow lock the flywheel and forgot to remove it after he was done?

I have taken the liberty of showing your photos below, so it is easier for others to see and comment on (rather than opening a link each time)
first photo is factory pin at 9 oClock
second a bolt at 3 oClock

link below shows timing mark and pin in relation to each other:
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/213088-post11.html
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for posting the pictures for me I use an I pad and I’m not too savvy With this type of stuff.

So the engine pictured came out of my 89 spider. It was running fine at the time. I removed it along with the transmission, due to the loss of first and second gear. Me being the hot shot master mechanic that I am( sic), I decided to pull the engine and transmission out of my rusty but complete 87 spider. I replaced the clutch and had the flywheel machined. Put it all together and installed the 87 in the 89. There are very few differences between the model years. When I got it started only two cylinders were firing. That’s about where I stand now, other than checking each sensor, disconnecting wiring harnesses to ring them out and checking many of the grounds. Haven’t had a lot of time in the garage lately but would love to make some headway by spring.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Is there a shop that I can send my ignition computer to be bench checked?

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farina View Post
When I got it started only two cylinders were firing. That’s about where I stand now....
which cylinders are not firing?

I am not so sure the ignition ecu would be at fault if you have 2 cylinders firing. And if one of the flywheel sensors were bad, I think you would have a no start.

check if you have spark on all 4 cylinders (if not, might just be a bad lead, or plug or two.....it can happen!)

you sure you have the firing order correct? (if dizzy leads were removed and replaced in the wrong position, for example. check for 1-3-4-2 firing order)

if spark is on all 4 (and leads and plugs are confirmed good........you can swop over some to test) then you should either be looking at very low compression on those 2 cylinders, or, a fuel issue (clogged injectors, injector signal, injector connector plugs etc)

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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It is consistently firing on two cylinders. Plugs are out so I can see them fire or not. Swapped cap, rotor, wires and plugs from another working engine. Same result. Iím at my wits end, very close at least. I have a spare ignition computer but donít want to risk damaging that because I may be missing something. Well at least I have till spring to figure this **** thing out. Firing order at this time is not important because they are removed for trouble shooting. I may reinstall the previous flywheel just to make sure...

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Last edited by farina; 01-29-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 01:50 AM
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if all 4 plugs are sparking, and you have fuel, then it sure sounds like the flywheel is not aligned correct (although you say you installed it per the book)

it would spark and you'd have fuel, just not timed when you need it!

iirc: when the flywheel timing mark is up at 12 oclock, the little magnetic nub should be at 2 o'clock
(I believe the trigger pin/nub is actually magnetic, so that bolt a PO put in the other flywheel probably is not doing anything!.....but someone correct me if I am wrong)

one way to be sure, is to look for the flywheel bolt hole (there is only one with slightly recessed threads) and align this to the TDC flywheel mark....see photos here:
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/6824673-post16.html

but only go by the factory mark.....don't rely on paint marks unless you are sure they too aling with the factory mark.

For instance here on the photo of your odd "2 pin" flywheel, there is a paintmark (I circled it red) and if that is supposed to be the TDC mark, then the timing nub (circled in yellow) is a 9 o'clock, not 2 o'clock!
In fact, I would almost hazard a guess that the faded paint mark (green arrow) is aligned to TDC......so paint marks themselves need to be double checked before assuming what they are for
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 05:53 AM
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See the photo in reply #2. I had wired brushed the area with the timing mark then applied some white paint to highlight it (next to the 16" on the tape measure). The timing nib is at the 10" mark.

- - Eric
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~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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There are only two plugs firing. All plugs are connected to the wires and sitting on top of the engine. When I crank the engine only 2 plugs fire. Number 1&4. With two sparks per revolution Itís like the computer skips a revolution. The engine, when I put it back together, starts up but runs, well like itís on two cylinders! Compression is even across all four cylinders. I forget the value though. I swapped the magnetic pickups too, no help. Iím lucky to have two complete cars for trouble shooting. Iíve gone through a lot of cigars leaning over this baby, thatís not a complaint. Man am I gonna know how this things works by the time Iím done.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 10:04 AM
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how odd. you swopped cap rotor and leads from the other car, so leads are likely ok.

the only thing that distributes the spark is the rotor in the distributor. The coil gets the tachymetric signal from a single white wire from the Ignition ECU (pin #1) to coil negative side (check. you have the whites on the coil negative?)
The coil is obviously delivering a spark to the distributor (or you will not have any spark at all)

You presently have plugs #1 & #4 sparking:
try swopping over lead 1 & 2 on the distributor cap (yes, you are putting them in the wrong order, but just do it to test)......is sparkplug 2 now sparking and 1 not? in other words do you now have plugs 2 & 4 sparking?

I have never heard of this before, but sounds likethe IGN ECU is only pulsing half what it should.

In which case swop over the IGN ECU from the other car.
Check though first, is the IGN ecu the correct one?: Bosch # 0 227 400 003

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 12:34 PM
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Here's a helpful post from @ghnl on another thread on AlfaBB:
flywheel installation

...and a photo from my engine rebuild thread, showing all the marks to mechanically time the engine:


I looked through my camera to see if I had a wider-angle view of the installed flywheel that shows the magnetic pickup, but I don't. @ghnl's photo with the tape measure should help with the magnet location.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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