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Intro and new to me Spider

10K views 78 replies 21 participants last post by  SkiBum 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all. I have purchased for next to nothing a 1987 Spider Graduate. Its pretty odd and has had a few questionable things done to it. I found it at a local Alfa dealer who had it parked out side for almost 2 years. I rescued it :) I tend to do that to Italian things. Anyway, my long love of Alfa has finally brought this little one to my door.

She was extremely dirty and full of water when I brought it home today. The top won't close properly. The front bumper was ripped on by the lot attendant at some point. But here is the very odd part. It was fit with an automatic transmission. Why... I have NO idea.

The car has 50k miles on it. I am the 4th owner. The body turns out to be extremely straight, zero rust that I can find, and literally 2 small dents. The plan is to repair, restore and update it. Every year we have an Italian/French car show that I attend every year. Always wanted to show up in my own car, so the plan is to have it ready by fathers day.

Anyway. I have a few things that I am looking for if someone has some leads or direction to point. I need either a new front bumper or the left side of it. I also need some wheels as it has a HIDEOUS set of 15's that are simply... indescribably terrible.

I look forward to sharing my journey with it.
 

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#2 ·
Congrats on the purchase and welcome to the forum.
It looks great and will look even better with the bumper and a better set of wheels.
Not sure if you know this, but you have something really interesting. One of the previous owners put the motor and trans from an S4 (91-94) into an S3 (83-89).
This may be a one of a kind Spider as no S3 were offered in automatic.
 
#3 ·
I stand corrected. Having looked again, you have an S3 motor with some S4 fuel injection and related equipment installed and an automatic trans mated to it.
Having said that, you will need to be careful sourcing info and advice as you have out of the ordinary things going on.
Does it run? It definitely needs a cooling fan.
 
#4 ·
Mike,
I think that is a proper S4 engine, probably transplanted from a 1991-on automatic S4 with some S3 add-ons like the fan pulley and the one piece USA manifold.

it has the motronic AFM, the IAV (no AAV) and the electronic VVT (w/o the electronic circuitboard gizmo on the front), later cable driven throttle, etc

the rest under the hood is all S3 (radiator, expansion bottle, windscreen washer bottle, etc)

as it has no fan, we hope it has an electric pusher fan fitted in front of the radiator?
;)

yep, and those Ninja wheels are fairly horrid.....but keep them on till you get it running well.
 
#5 ·
Somebody went to a bit of work to get this transplant done! Safe to assume it has the Motronic system complete, including the ECU. But it could use improved cooling, like you said, but that IS a series 4 motor alright.

Who woulda thunk??? I wonder what rear axle ratio it has? Better yet, the fusebox?? :grin2:
 
#6 ·
Thanks for all the insight sirs! I have been furiously trying to figure out what was done to it. I have ripped out the entire interior etc to get a handle on the transplant.

Here is what I have found. Relocated relays under the back tray. Electric pusher fan on the front. Car starts up and runs a champ... like really nicely.

The insulation was completely soaked through and fallen apart, I have stripped it all out of the car. Here is the progress for the day.
 

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#9 · (Edited)
Will you look at that tranny tunnel? Did the PO cut out the OEM tunnel and graft in the console mount and E brake section from an automatic S4? Sure looks like it, right down to the patch plate over the gear lever opening. Well I'll be...

And this is a Graduate, too. Very nice seats and interior. You are doing the right thing by stripping out all the wet stuff and replacing.

A very unique Series 3 Spider.

PS-- Watch for a set of wheels you like on the Classified section here. Lots of wheels being sold at good prices. The 15" phone dial wheels from an S4 are usually priced right, and they'd look nice on that black Spider.
 
#10 ·
VIN is ZARBA5647H1045591

The interior was actually really lucky. If it was leather it would have been ruined by the water etc. I started it up today after ripping out all the extra wiring etc just to make sure it would. Started right up. Took some video of it running.

Put a space heater inside of it to help dry out any of residual moisture. I think I will peal off the old sound deadening while I am at it and lay down some dynamat.
 
#11 ·
MY90 spiders (sometimes called S3.5 series) had the S4 engine, yes, but the rest of the engine bay in the spider above (anciliaries et al) is pure S3, so MY89 or earlier.

A series S3.5 engine bay is identical to S4, except it has no power steering box and no airbag sensors.
 
#15 ·
Got a bit more work done today.

Stipped off the insulation on the hood which was crumbling badly. Then turned my attention inside and stripped out the damaged sound deadening material.

Then some general clean up.
 

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#16 ·
Chunks of Dry ice (fishing shop) in a thin plastic shopping bag, left on the sound proofing for a few minutes freezes it so it can be chipped up in chunks without too much scrapping or any chemicals

Mind you, yours seems t be coming off nicely ��
 
#17 ·
That appears to be an S4 fuse box, too, which would sure facilitate the conversion. Probably the entire S4 wiring harness.

This Spider is well worth saving! An automatic Series 3, Graduate, with Bosch Motronic. Looks very nice, too. Whoever took on this project in the first place knew what they were up against, IMHO.
 
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#18 ·
A bit more progress over the past few days.

Got the instrument cluster checked out and put back together.

Cleaned up and trimmed the main carpet. Took forever to dry it.

Joy! Got the top up actually. First time I was able to get it in place. :)

Looks like I have an oil leak to attend to. Apart from that, there is some shabby wiring that I will re do.

Really need to find a wiring diagram to figure out what exactly I am looking at.... I fear that may be a bit of a chore.
 

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#20 ·
Good luck on this. If you can save the hard wearing vinyl seat material you’ll be miles ahead.

But your post was about wheels.

I personally think the reproduction Daytona Star wheels make for a nice look. You can get them from Centerline. The phone dial wheels are hideously heavy. I’ll give a set away if anyone wants them. Everybody and their dog has gone down the 15” GTAreproduction road. I’d go 185/70 x 14 with Pirelli CN-36 tires.
 
#21 ·
The seats are savable and in perfect shape. So that is huge.

A classic lover suggesting the Pirelli's! :)

Don't like the phone dials terribly much. The Daytona's are very nice, for a stock look. The repro GTA's are handsome and I like them but agree... a lot have gone that way. The Rota RB are nice as well but most have gone silver or gunmetal. There are a new version that are a bronzish color with a polished lip that I think would be nicer. I have also found the Corsa Velocita Steels that I could custom order in any size and offset which might be the way to go. I have even contemplated the TZ repros or even a set of the Comadora Turbinas... which have an odd fascination to me. Maybe too retro though.

Ideally a 15 or 16" size. If Rota made the Brescia in a 15 or 16 I would be all over that.
 
#22 ·
If you are looking at Turbina's, and I agree, they are a good choice. Then those are 14", which is fine, at that point you can also look at Momo Vega's which suit the spider body very well in my opinion, also being reproduced now. I don't like the GTA wheels on the spider body, on the bright side, there are many many pictures on this site for you to ponder your dreams.

Cheers,
 
#23 ·
Hey there Cranbook :) Close to me!

Got more done today. Tackled the rust in the trunk spare tire well. Found the only rusted through spot there.

Removed and repaired the 3 license plate lights. None worked... got them all cleaned up. Repaired the housing and re assembled.

Then moved up front. Spark plugs and air filter. Mess around a bit.

Question... I have found one of the 6 cam cover bolts lose. When I inspect it... it seems to be made in two pieces and that it is some sort of adjustment.

Please enlighten me? Also is there a PDF work shop manual around?

Thank you all. You have been such a help. I have a bunch of parts coming now that should complete all the missing parts.
 

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#24 · (Edited)
Well uh... there is nothing 2 piece about cam cover bolts! Nothing to adjust. Just the washer underneath.

Let me clarify-- The round hex socket nut visible on top, fits over a threaded stud on the cam journal caps underneath. So I guess it could be seen as two piece... but there is no adjustment of sorts. Just don't overtorque.
 
#27 ·
Great response Spydaman-- BTW JB, there are 2 metal washers used only on the rear cam cover nuts. Keep them at the rearmost position. The other 4 washers are red fiber.
 
#29 ·
Alert Alert do not I repeat do not use heat. The cover holds down a fragile cork gasket and 2 rubber half moon fillers. Use something with some leverage like vice grips or multi grips , you can find the hex screws easier than fixing up the mess you'll end up with if you use heat. Regards John. :frown2::frown2::frown2:
 
#31 ·
Moved on to some new things today.

Got the ignition sorted. The key was mangled so had to remove it and get it taken apart and new keys cut. Done!

Replacement soft top latches installed.

Got it running again and let it get up to temperature to see if the electric fan kicks in. It does.

Got more of the trunk cleaned up. Spare tire well wire brushed and ready for some anti corrosion paint.

Found a set of wheels that will work for now to remove the awful hideous ones. Pick up tomorrow.

Oh... an order from Centerline came in. Few bits I needed. As well a box of misc part I picked up from a forum member including a bumper cover for the left side that I needed and signal lamps.

All in all.... getting there!
 
#32 ·
More progress.

Trunk is all finished up ready for some paint.

More interior felt pulled out around the firewall. Was rotten. Thought it might be saveable. nope.

Fixed up some under hood wiring that was completely terrible. All in all a little bit here, a little bit there.

Did a little Photoshop play to see where its headed. I like it :)

Going to need a drivers window winder internal mechanism. A few other little bits but nothing too major!
 

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#33 ·
Got the trunk finished. After wire brushing any surface rust in the spare well, treated it with anti rust primer then rust inhibiting paint. Carpets re installed and the trunk is done.

Moved on to the interior. Tested all the lights. Made sure they all work. Got the dash lights working. Got the auto box illumination light lit... all good.

Sorted through more wiring to figure out what we have and it seems reasonably logical. Everything seems to be working fine.

Played with the top which was super hard to close... now its only very hard. So good i guess? :) It needs to be replaced anyway but int will do in a pinch.

Next up is getting the floor padding sorted and carpets back in the car.
 
#34 ·
Double checked all the lights and turn signal. Everything lights up as it should!

Found some juke underlay at a local shop up in the rafters. Cut it up and fit it to the floors. All nicely fitted and ready to test fit the carpet tub now.
 

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#35 ·
You have the carpets out. How about installing some sound deadening stuff. Makes a lot of difference. You have the door cards off. Put a couple sq ft inside the doors. You don't need to cover the whole door.
If you tap the sheet metal with a plastic hammer before and after you install you will hear the difference. The weight of the leaded sheet will lower the frequency of the sound. (That's why the UPS guy will complain when he delivers the box.) :smile2:
 
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