S4: How To Remove Parcel Shelf - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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S4: How To Remove Parcel Shelf

I'm trying to solve a no-start problem on my 91 Spider but can only access 2 of the relays through the hatch. How do I remove the parcel shelf?

BTW I charged up the battery and checked the voltage so the next step is to test the red stripe relay.

Mitch

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 10:42 AM
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Lift the piece of carpet that hangs over the front edge of the parcel shelf and you should see two black sheet metal facings that are attached to the floor with a total of 5 Phillips head screws. Remove those screws and the parcel shelf should lift out.

Edward
'88 Quad - "Claudia"
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 11:10 AM
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little addendum to Ed's instructions:
there are also 2 obvious phillips head screws at the back, through the carpet covered shelf.
a strong Velcro lip at the front

those 5 screws at the front I never put back, the velcro strip at the front holds it all down fine and being an alfa you'll be back under there in a few weeks anyways
@Mitch
now that we are here, whats the problem you have?
no spark?

you checked voltage of battery, static, but you need to check voltage at battery "whilst" cranking, it must stay at 11v or above for computor to kick in.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 11-28-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 11:14 AM
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Ha ha. Good call Dom. I forgot about the two in the back because I do the opposite of what you do. I never install the ones in the back, just the front ones!
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Edward
'88 Quad - "Claudia"
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
...and being an alfa you'll be back under there in a few weeks anyways
HA!

Beauty.
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Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-28-2018, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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you checked voltage of battery, static, but you need to check voltage at battery "whilst" cranking, it must stay at 11v or above for computor to kick in.[/QUOTE]

The battery charged up to 13.4v and after cranking was 12.5v. Since I was on my own I couldn't check while cranking, **** battery's in the trunk. It did turn over pretty fast but I'll enlist my wife next time to make sure.

Anyway after owning the car for 7 years I figured I should know how to get to the relays since I'm probably overdue. Funny thing is I carry a spare red stripe after reading about how often they fail.

Mitch

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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The battery passed a load test and then to make sure I hooked up my charger and tried to start it with no luck.

Next step was swapping in a new red stripe relay, no luck. I got out my VOM but the ohms results made no sense. On both the original and the new one I got no continuity with black on 85 and red on 86. Reversing the leads gave very low readings ~0.15. Is it possible they're both toast?

If its not the red stripe relay then the next thing to check is the crank sensor. Any diagrams and tips?

Mitch

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 12:18 PM
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I think the red stripe relay has a diode on the coil, which would explain why you only get a reading one way.

Are you not getting fuel or not getting spark? Figuring that out first will help you troubleshoot.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchW View Post
The battery passed a load test and then to make sure I hooked up my charger and tried to start it with no luck.

Next step was swapping in a new red stripe relay, no luck. I got out my VOM but the ohms results made no sense. On both the original and the new one I got no continuity with black on 85 and red on 86. Reversing the leads gave very low readings ~0.15. Is it possible they're both toast?

If its not the red stripe relay then the next thing to check is the crank sensor. Any diagrams and tips?

Mitch
yes you only get a reading ONE way on the diode relay, BUT you should get 770 ohms with black on 85 and red on 86 (you are sure you set the VOM to ohms, say 2000 ohms, for it to read within the correct scale?)
was it an original bosch relays, red stripe? or alternative? if alternative, what type and number?

EDIT: check the 3 other relays as well....they are important especially the AUX motronic relay....on these you should get 70-80 ohms between #85 & #86 (with these it doesn't matter which way around)

The tests for the CPS are as follows:
ohms test: at the plug up by the windscreen washer fluid filler neck...3 pin plug....between an outside pin and the middle pin you should get between 500-600 ohms....if no reading, try the other outside pin to middle.
volts test: clip your OVM to the same 2 pins that gave the omhs reading, set it to volts AC (not DC!), now crank the engine: you should get 1.4V AC
ECU supply voltage to CPS test: set VOM this time to Volts DC; IGN OFF clip VOM to middle and outer pin of HARNESS side of plug (ie. going back to ECU)...only now turn on ignition....you should get 4.4V DC

if you get the above the CPS is very likely OK.
Last test is visual......unscrew the CPS (one allen head bolt) and pull it out the mount.....inspect the tip for build up of crud, and clean if so.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

Last edited by spiderserie4; 12-01-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Its a Bosch 0 332 014 112, it even came in a Bosch box but it was ebay so who knows. The old one is the same pn. My VOM is a Harbor Freight cheapie but it does 0 out when testing resistance. I've got it set on the 2K scale. The new relays been sitting in my glove box for a couple of years so it may have corroded.

I'll check the CPS and see what I get. The car had been running fine but sat for 2 weeks and then wouldn't start.

Mitch

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Last edited by MitchW; 12-01-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 01:44 PM
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odd, maybe check the other 3 relays back there on your VOM (see my edit above) to see what you get there.....
I would think the relays are OK.....I have my spare sitting in a glovebox for 10 years and it still ohms out correct

maybe the meter?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-02-2018, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Went out and got new batteries for my other VOM and I'm still getting strange readings but closer.

The Red Stripes both returned about 1100 ohms and the CPS about 4000. I still don't trust this meter since the readings kept drifting lower. I'll see if I can borrow another meter.

Mitch

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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 02:11 PM
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I have an '85 Spider that hasn't been on the road/started in about 15 years. New gas, new fuel filter, oil soaked the cylinders for a weak (1/2 ounce), new battery fully charged. Turns over good and is getting gas. No spark. All the posts I've read talk about the crank sensors and the famous Red Stripe Relay. The crank sensors are in place. The popular advice is check the relays first before testing the sensors. I took off the parcel shelf and there's the ECU, BUT there are not 4 relays back there and none with a red stripe. Are these relays Series 4 cars only? I have the ECU, a small silver 0450 relay, and 2 small black modules. Please tell this Alfa Rookie what I'm doing wrong. Thanks

OK. I found some pictures on the "L-JETRONIC DIAGNOSTIC document that was linked in several posts. I'll go from there and try to check the relays. It shows the Altitude Comp Device, Main Relay and Drive Relay.

Last edited by Mancini85; 12-07-2018 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Found some pictures
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Progress, I went out and bought a decent VOM and I can conclusively say that both read stripe relays have very high resistance readings. The CPS had a good reading and the other relay had normal readings. So now I need a reliable source for a new red stripe relay.

I also took off the distributor cap and it looks like I should replace the cap and rotor as they're both pretty worn. I remember reading that the rotor is glued to the shaft. Is it best to remove the distributor to replace the rotor?

Mitch

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-08-2018, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
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Progress, I went out and bought a decent VOM and I can conclusively say that both read stripe relays have very high resistance readings. The CPS had a good reading and the other relay had normal readings. So now I need a reliable source for a new red stripe relay.

I also took off the distributor cap and it looks like I should replace the cap and rotor as they're both pretty worn. I remember reading that the rotor is glued to the shaft. Is it best to remove the distributor to replace the rotor?

Mitch
red stripe: this is an original a fair price, for instance:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-03320...0RGc:rk:3:pf:0

or the land rover relay # AFU2913L works perfect too.

dizzy cap and rotor: yes the rotor is originally glued on, but it might have been replaced in its long life so just try pulling.
Otherwise removing the dizzy to crack off the rotor is no big deal (one nut and pull)
I did when I replaced mine.

It might be worth getting a new O ring for the dizzy, if you see there is oil leaking out around the dizzy base...otherwise just leave the old one in there.
And no need to glue new rotor back on.

ONLY get a Bosch matched rotor and cap, numbers for these are:
rotor: Bosch 04168 (ca 12$ if you search on ebay, some ask stupid prices though)
cap: Bosch 03010 (10-12$, same as VW etc)

rotor diagram from TSB:
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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