Alfa Spider Duetto 1750 chassis VIN query - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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Alfa Spider Duetto 1750 chassis VIN query

Hi All, I just had a question re. an Alfa Spider 1750 Duetto for sale that I went to view yesterday as I was interested in buying. I couldn't understand why the chassis number on the car was AR2470979 which I thought was for a S2 Spider?

It has a later 1750 head with the triangle and dot inside and the engine number on the paperwork is 1055700548/F3645

The seller is saying the car is a 1967 S1 Duetto Spider.

Can anyone shed any light if this would be a correct chassis number for a S1 and 1967 in particular.

Hope that's ok and many thanks for any help you might be able to give

A
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 07:47 AM
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not a roundtail spider chassis number, if that's the number you saw stamped into the bulkhead.
Has it got a roundtail at least?


got a photo?

see Wille's duetto register here for chassis numbers:
Duetto Register

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:25 AM
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Do you have a picture of the car? It's not impossible for it to be cobbled together from multiple cars. The front half could very well be from a Kamm tail and the rear half from a Round tail.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Hi, thanks for the quick replies gents. The car is for sale on ebay currently here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-ORIGIN...7w8P:rk:1:pf:0

It had a sticker over the chassis number on the bulkhead so I took that off and scraped the thick paint off to reveal that chassis number. I explained to the owner that his serial number on the car was not a Duetto number as far as I knew but he didn't seem very bothered. I'm concerned someone may spend their hard earned $ on a 'fake'Duetto here.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 08:49 AM
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Well, that looks like a Series 2 front and a Series 1 rear.

Dash and, I think, windshield are Series 1.

How well does the convertible top fit?
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Hi, the hood was down most of the time and when pulled up we did not try to secure it properly. The car's bodywork was poorly welded/bodged that I was actually shocked and distracted at how poor the standard of work was. Sounds like you may be right about front S2 and rear Duetto. I think he should be clarifying the provenance before selling this. Someone not in the know buying this may be stung here.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 09:46 AM
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It is interesting inasmuch the photos on ebay seem to show that when the car was under construction, it had a Series 1 front grille, but no bumpers. This car clearly has a Series 2 grille and bumpers and the front facia panel is also Series 2.

"Bodge" is the correct designation.

If the ebay listing allows, you could "ask a question" that includes mention of parts that are clearly not Series 1, thus potentially saving some unwitting buyer a headache.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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I believe that 247 series chassis sequence is Right hand drive as well which the photos clearly aren't. I had an earlier 247 series S2 car built '72 so it would make sense.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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I have sent a message to the seller to ask him to make it clear in the listing to any potential buyers that the serial number is not for a 1967 1750 Duetto. I hope he does the right thing as I would have thought ebay would be less than happy to be used to sell such high value items that appear to be clearly misrepresented.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 11:56 AM
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fleabay don't really give a monkey's

the car (according to the registration plate, in the trunk) is listed as an 'Alfa romeo 2000' on the UK registration site, and as first being registered on 06 August '75

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 02:36 PM
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I'm sorry, folks. It looks like a real 1750 to me. Without inspecting the chassis number, or seeing a picture of it, I'm sticking to my guns.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 03:00 PM
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d'Amico & Tabucchi list chassis 2470979 as a 1974 model 105.27 right hand drive 2000 Spider. 1974 chassis number range is 2470701-2471010.
Somethings amiss IMO.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 03:31 PM
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I'm making an additional note. All RHD 1750 S1 Spiders chassis numbers start with 147. I would encourage the OP to go back and review the chassis number. Sometimes paint can be a bit too think to make out the numbers, clearly.

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 06:58 PM
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I’m with Osso, looks like a S1 Duetto/Roundtail to me, although left hand drive not RHD.

The round holes for the side indicators behind the front wheels are a give away to ^this^ originality.. replacement panels all have them in front, as per the later cars. If there were pictures of the radiator support panels and the inside of the bonnet, more could be said.

Not sure what’s so wrong with the welding either, looks like good clean welds on that replacement inner sill, to get to that you have to remove pretty much everything on the outside, including the lower front and rear arches and middle sill, so I’d suggest the sill repairs have actually been done correctly?

The front number plate (black sticker has the 3rd letter blacked out). By way of deduction I’m guessing it’s KNJ 581P (as per the yellow plate in the boot), which comes up as a Red Alfa Romeo. UK people often black out letters in pictures online as it stops people from looking a car up and seeing the annual MOT information, including any advisory’s/mileage.

Looking at the detail in the database (as noted above) states the following:
Vehicle make: ALFA ROMEO
Date of first registration: August 1975
Year of manufacture: 1975
Cylinder capacity (cc): 1962 cc
CO₂Emissions: Not available
Fuel type: PETROL
Euro Status: Not available
Export marker: No
Vehicle status: SORN in place
Vehicle colour: RED
Vehicle type approval: Not available
Wheelplan: 2-AXLE-RIGID BODY
Revenue weight: Not available

Which bears out what the eBay advert says.... “IT WAS IMPORTED INTO GB FROM ITALY IN 1976 WHICH IS WHY IT IS ON A "P-REG" PLATE. IT IS A COMPLETE CAR, ALL PARTS INCLUDED.”

Perhaps the “scratched off” VIN number was issued (made up) by the UK DVLA when it was imported ... a good picture of that before it was destroyed would be handy.

With regards the two different VIN/chassis numbers and rego papers, who knows. HOWEVER, on Willies Duetto register he has a scan of the FUSI chassis and engine serial number ranges (page 10) which lists a 1750 Spider Veloce has the chassis range of 105.57.1410001 - 105.57.1410854.

Which agrees with the paper work as noted 1055700548/F3645
Indeed if the engine number is F3645 (very likely), it also falls in the range and is probably original

What’s not clear to me is what chassis number BillyBob found stamped on the firewall under the paint he scratched off (was this AR2470979 or is that the number scratched off?)


http://www.duettoregister.com/a5fc74...2ddd1a1-9.html



I’m talking about the pictures of the car in the eBay link, NOT the pictures of the 1300Junior posted by Osso to show a roundtail that has been repaired with an S2 front end, no doubt reasonable decades ago as S1 front ends were not reproduced and harder to come buy (OEM only). Those pictures are not related to the UK car in any way but seem to have confused a few people.

'66 1600 Duetto | '73 1600 GTJunior | '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon | '11 Giulietta QV (wow, revelation) | I really don't need this many Alfa's...

Last edited by Craig_m67; 11-20-2018 at 09:14 PM.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 09:27 PM
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That Ebay car has had a major impact on the front. Watch out how it has been repaired with presto, also the 'nose' above the scudetto is gone.

I never would buy a car where such major VIN issues/questions undoubtedly exist. Once you've bought it they are the new owner's issues.
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