Electric Spider - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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One possibility is to buy a totaled Tesla for the batteries.
Tesla Model S battery modules are the best available. They are the most power-dense per pound. Two problems with them. 1. they require a liquid cooling system, which is doable, but adds a lot of plumbing. 2. They are expensive. Used modules are $1200-$1500 each and I would need 6 to get close to 144 volts.

Leaf modules require no liquid cooling, and can be found for $80-$100 used. My current design uses 38 leaf modules in a 19s2p configuration. I can always add 19 more batteries (19s3p) to the trunk @170lbs to increase range, but for version one, I want to keep the weight down and keep a usable trunk.

I'm betting that in the near future, more battery options will become available at more affordable prices. Range will go up, mass will go down.

Seth Friesen

Last edited by Elmolino; 10-19-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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post #32 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:36 PM
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post #33 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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The Coupler

One critical part that needs to be fabricated is a coupler that connects the motor's output shaft to the Alfa flywheel. This part needs to be a precise length in order to hold the flywheel in the same relative location in the bell housing as it was with the gas engine. The coupler must also firmly attach to the motor, which led me to a few design iterations. Most motor couplers I have seen utilize the 1/4" key on the motor shaft. Some people add a set screw to apply pressure on the key stock to keep everything in place, others machine the coupler to have an interference fit that must be heated to install. Both of these methods seem less than awesome. My engineer buddy suggested I look at a Trantorque keyless bushing to make the coupling. These nifty devices expand inward and outward as you tighten the nut. The Trantorque can handle 360 lb/ft of torque, plenty for this application!

Once the Trantorque is tightened to spec, a bushing is pressed in that holds the pilot bearing. The coupler is pretty much a permanent component that would only be removed if the motor goes kaboom.
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post #34 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 11:29 AM
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Has anybody thought of using a small 4 stroke (like an outboard boat motor) or generator to just charge to the battery when it gets low?

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post #35 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 11:49 AM
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Has anybody thought of using a small 4 stroke (like an outboard boat motor) or generator to just charge to the battery when it gets low?
Or changing the boot lid to a solar panel to charge the batteries when it can ... car is in CA so plenty of sun.

Reversible conversions are going to become very popular.



BTW Elmolino, why do you need to keep the Alfa flywheel, and I assume clutch? You don't need a clutch with an electric motor (electric motor does not run all the time like a IC does), or a flywheel for the starter. Can you not just connect the electric motor straight to the gearbox input shaft?
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post #36 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 02:08 PM
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Elmolino: Appreciate your initiative and efforts on your Electric Spider; especially from another Petaluma Spider Owner! Main question is how can you possibly smog a 1978 ‘any’ car in California? Smog rules include 1. emissions 2. visual 3. functional. visual means Factory Stock Year of Manufacturer Engine Specs: EGR valves etc for California compliance for 1978 year. Fact that you’re deleting the 1978 Factory Engine with electric will pass emissions, obviously but in California’s unending quest to rid our roads of 1% [2018 car population] of Classic Daily Driver vehicles they ‘invented’ the Visual Criteria [in addition to emissions]. Only answer for your ‘78 Electric if indeed it stays in CA is to engage a State Smog DMV Referee to get some sort of ‘variance’ Title?! Curious to learn, as you state, there are thousands of killer 1976 and newer semi-cool classics that avoided ‘Cash for Clunkers’ debacle that could be cool zero emission machines!
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post #37 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 09:45 AM
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post #38 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NEROSPIDER View Post
Elmolino: Appreciate your initiative and efforts on your Electric Spider; especially from another Petaluma Spider Owner! Main question is how can you possibly smog a 1978 ‘any’ car in California? Smog rules include 1. emissions 2. visual 3. functional. visual means Factory Stock Year of Manufacturer Engine Specs: EGR valves etc for California compliance for 1978 year. Fact that you’re deleting the 1978 Factory Engine with electric will pass emissions, obviously but in California’s unending quest to rid our roads of 1% [2018 car population] of Classic Daily Driver vehicles they ‘invented’ the Visual Criteria [in addition to emissions]. Only answer for your ‘78 Electric if indeed it stays in CA is to engage a State Smog DMV Referee to get some sort of ‘variance’ Title?! Curious to learn, as you state, there are thousands of killer 1976 and newer semi-cool classics that avoided ‘Cash for Clunkers’ debacle that could be cool zero emission machines!
I haven't actually done a conversion registration at the California DMV yet, but it is my understanding that you simply fill out a "Statement of Facts" which indicates the reason for smog exemption - electric conversion. The vehicle must then be inspected by the DMV "referee" to confirm that the car has indeed been converted to electric. After that, no more smog! Additionally, the car can qualify for the white Clean Air Vehicle sticker which allows you to drive in the HOV lanes.

Nerospider, are you still in Petaluma?

Here is some more information:https://www.arb.ca.gov/html/master_f...onversions.htm

Seth Friesen
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post #39 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
BTW Elmolino, why do you need to keep the Alfa flywheel, and I assume clutch? You don't need a clutch with an electric motor (electric motor does not run all the time like a IC does), or a flywheel for the starter. Can you not just connect the electric motor straight to the gearbox input shaft?
Pete
Hi Pete,
I am keeping the clutch and flywheel to make it easier to shift gears. Even though you technically could put it in 3rd gear and it would be happy in most conditions; I think it will be fun to be able to shift like a proper Alfa! The flywheel could be made significantly lighter however, as it only serves as a friction surface and a mount for the clutch cover. If only those fancy aluminum flywheels from Alfaholics weren't so pricey!
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post #40 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 11:34 AM
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Elmolino, thank you for the ARB link; learn something new everyday! Your Electric Spider project makes total sense now, with DMV Statement if Facts / Electric Conversion / Smog Referee plan. My Petaluma property is out in Two Rock . . .
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post #41 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 04:01 PM
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One possibility is to buy a totaled Tesla for the batteries.
That could be very dangerous. These are lithium batteries, which already have issues with fire and explosion. I'd be careful of what happened to the batteries from any car that was in a crash.

Robert
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post #42 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
That could be very dangerous. These are lithium batteries, which already have issues with fire and explosion. I'd be careful of what happened to the batteries from any car that was in a crash.

Robert
Doesn’t nd to be dangerous. Seems a few people are doing it now with real engineering skills. This build looks amazing

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vi...d18c361803e3d8
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post #43 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 06:52 PM
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East Coast Conversion

Electric car conversions are done by many companies and individuals in California and other states. evalbum.com has data on many conversions and electricauto.org has current news on electric cars. There are many folks that have been through the motor vehicle process and can help in each state.

For the record I am also converting an Alfa Spider to electric on the east coast. Mine is an 88 Veloce and will use a lightened Tilton clutch because of the weaker Alfa synchros. My adapter for the flywheel is a shrink fit hub that simulates the end of the crank. Emolino and I have talked about his conversion plans and he has some good ideas. The challenge with the spider will be to have adequate range but not go over the GVW rating with battery count. Wish us luck!
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post #44 of 124 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 11:27 AM
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tesla now has a part catalog you can get.. might help you
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post #45 of 124 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 06:54 AM
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What is next,

a self driving spider?
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