Starter for '73 2L with '86 Gearbox - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 02:04 PM
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From your pictures it almost looks like you have the 75 to 85 starter. As I think I see the support bracket on the back of the starter. Which is the big one. If this is the one you have you need the 131 tooth ring gear. If you have the 130 tooth 72 to 74 and 90 to 93 ring gear then eventually the ring gear is going to get chewed up.

If you know that your ring gear is the 73 130 tooth. Then the best combo would be putting a 90 to 93 starter on it. These are the light weight high torque permanent magnet starter.

Also check your battery cables and the voltage of the battery. Either one of those will make your starter turn over slow.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-10-2018, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all. I got straightened out. It's a 130 tooth ring. I ordered the compatible high-torque starter today.
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1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-11-2018, 07:03 AM
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if your ring gear is original to the engine, will not work with your '86 starter. well, it might for a little while, but might not. for sure, down stream, after all is buttoned up, will not. if it was workable & reliable, alfa would have used it. 73 ring gear is 130 teeth, 10.875" OD. 86 is 131 teeth, 11" OD. both use 9 tooth pinions - the same pinion (industry standard). the mount is same but pinion gear location is moved 1mm outwards on the later starter to make proper engagement w the ring gear. rebuilding your '86 starter is not going to solve your problem. you need an earlier starter.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-12-2018, 05:06 PM
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I can't say enough about the advantages of the gear reduction starter. Four years ago I put in a Performatek Denso gear reduction starter from Andy Kress in my '73. The difference in how fast the motor turns over with the gear reduction starter over the original starter was night and day. I think it was one of the best improvements I've ever done to the car. It cost around $350 or so. Expensive, yes, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Bob J.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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I received my PowerLite gear reduction starter today. No mention in the instructions about a gasket. What say you gurus? Gasket or no gasket?

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by barboncino105 View Post
73 ring gear is 130 teeth, 10.875" OD. 86 is 131 teeth, 11" OD. both use 9 tooth pinions - the same pinion (industry standard). the mount is same but pinion gear location is moved 1mm outwards on the later starter to make proper engagement w the ring gear.
Yea, that's my understanding too. But one thing I've never understood: the people who sell the gear reduction starters claim they will fit either type of ringgear. For example, the blurb on Alfaholics' site reads: "High torque race starter motor. 9 tooth to fit all 130/131 tooth starter ring gear".

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 03:18 PM
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re one starters fits all.... a lot of sites say that. no clue what their reality is.
re power lite - ask the guys who sold it to you.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 03:52 AM
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But one thing I've never understood: the people who sell the gear reduction starters claim they will fit either type of ringgear. For example, the blurb on Alfaholics' site reads: "High torque race starter motor. 9 tooth to fit all 130/131 tooth starter ring gear".
And Alfa says the same thing. Please click below for the TSB on fitting a stock 1975-up starter on a 1972-1974 engine.
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File Type: pdf TSB 05.02, Starter.pdf (456.3 KB, 29 views)

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 09:32 AM
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And Alfa says the same thing. Please click below for the TSB on fitting a stock 1975-up starter on a 1972-1974 engine.
Well, that does explain things somewhat. The Alfa TSB suggests it will work to use a starter designed for the larger diameter ring gear (e.g., the 131 tooth gear) on a smaller diameter gear (e.g., the 130 tooth gear). In other words, increasing the gear-gear clearance is OK.

My guess is that doing the converse - using a starter designed for a smaller RG on a larger RG, which would yield too little gear-gear clearance - probably wouldn't be OK.

We were taught in engineering school that correct gear clearances are important for long life / quiet operation. When gears are set up properly, there is no rubbing between the teeth; they just roll across each-other. An example is how exquisitely sensitive differential ring & pinion gears are to their settings. But the starter pinion and ring gear have a low duty cycle, so I guess if the clearances are somewhat too large, it will take a long time for the teeth to wear out.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 10:46 AM
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i took it to be a little unclear. i presumed it was for 115 models from 1975 onwards - the ones that came in w 131 tooth ring gears.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 11:12 AM
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What year did the spiders go from 105 to 115?

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 11:36 AM
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What year did the spiders go from 105 to 115?
1972

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2018, 12:04 PM
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same ring gear though... that did not change until 1975... they made 115 spiders until 1994 - w a change back to 130 tooth ring gear in 1990 w motronic engines.
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