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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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No Crank, No Draw

I know. There are many threads on this already so one more cant hurt, right? Sorry.

During the restoration, I tested the starter while off the car and it tested fine. When I put a test light on the terminal, it lights. The battery is new and fully charged and the terminals are clean. The trigger wire is connected and secure.

When I turn the key to the start position, I hear only crickets and, based on the voltage gauge, it's not drawing any current.

The shop manual troubleshooting says to "O/C" a couple of things. What does "O/C" mean?

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 04:42 PM
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Open contact, maybe?

Try a remote starter switch. If that works it's something in your ignition switch circuit. If that doesn't work it's something at the starter.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-30-2018, 04:44 PM
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I am guessing that "O/C" means "open circuit"; e.g., no connection.

Is it possible that your ignition switch is bad? That is, when you turn the key to "start", it doesn't send any current to the starter solenoid. You could test this with a long, heavy gauge jumper wire with a female spade connector on one end. Take the wire from the ignition switch off the starter solenoid, attach your jumper to the solenoid and touch the other end of the jumper to the battery "+". If the starter operates, then the switch or wiring are defective.

(looks like Gubi and I were typing at the same time). Yea, a remote starter switch would be a simpler way to accomplish what I suggested. Harbor Freight sells these for $10:


Jay Mackro
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'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 03-30-2018 at 04:48 PM.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 06:35 AM
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My similar issue turned out to be corroded wiring in the terminal clamp of the ground cable. I cut off a short section of the wire, remounted the clamp and all was well.

Greg East
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
I am guessing that "O/C" means "open circuit"; e.g., no connection.

Is it possible that your ignition switch is bad? That is, when you turn the key to "start", it doesn't send any current to the starter solenoid. You could test this with a long, heavy gauge jumper wire with a female spade connector on one end. Take the wire from the ignition switch off the starter solenoid, attach your jumper to the solenoid and touch the other end of the jumper to the battery "+". If the starter operates, then the switch or wiring are defective.

(looks like Gubi and I were typing at the same time). Yea, a remote starter switch would be a simpler way to accomplish what I suggested. Harbor Freight sells these for $10:

You're right on both counts. O/C does mean open circuit (I found a reference to it in the manual) and I purchased a remote switch from Harbor Freight and the starter operated.

I then replaced the connecter on the starter solenoid trigger wire but still nothing. The ignition switch was replaced relatively recently but the car was completely submerged in flood water subsequently. I have so far been successful in getting all the other electronics working that I know of without starting the engine.

Next steps?

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 20yearoldspider View Post
The ignition switch was replaced relatively recently but the car was completely submerged in flood water subsequently.
Possibly your new ignition switch is bad. Or the connector at the switch isn't making a connection. There isn't much between the switch and starter - just the wire.

Does the ignition switch send power to the coil when in the "run" position? If not, you may not be getting power to the switch.

Given that the ignition switch was replaced recently, your issue is most likely at or in the switch.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 03-31-2018 at 11:16 AM.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Possibly your new ignition switch is bad. Or the connector at the switch isn't making a connection. There isn't much between the switch and starter - just the wire.

Does the ignition switch send power to the coil when in the "run" position? If not, you may not be getting power to the switch.

Given that the ignition switch was replaced recently, your issue is most likely at or in the switch.
What year is your Spider? I may have a solution for your ignition switch.
Cheers

1970 GTV (owned since 1987)
1985 GTV2.5
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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What year is your Spider? I may have a solution for your ignition switch.
Cheers
'86

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Possibly your new ignition switch is bad. Or the connector at the switch isn't making a connection. There isn't much between the switch and starter - just the wire.

Does the ignition switch send power to the coil when in the "run" position? If not, you may not be getting power to the switch.

Given that the ignition switch was replaced recently, your issue is most likely at or in the switch.
Yes, the coil is getting power with the switch in the "run" position.

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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With the black trigger wire connected to the solenoid, I disconnected it (black and violet wire connecter pigtail) from the ignition switch and connected the remote starter to it and got nothing. Could this mean the black wire is bad somewhere down the line?

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 03:10 PM
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Do you have 12 volts on other circuits? Do the lights work?

Greg East
Loveland, CO USA
'74 Alfa Romeo Spider
'87 Porsche 944 turbo
'93 BMW 740i
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yearoldspider View Post
With the black trigger wire connected to the solenoid, I disconnected it (black and violet wire connecter pigtail) from the ignition switch and connected the remote starter to it and got nothing. Could this mean the black wire is bad somewhere down the line?
Sure, it is possible the black wire is bad somewhere down the line, but wires don't usually fail in the middle - the problem is with one of the wire's connectors 99.9% of the time. Does the starter output from the ignition switch (where that black wire attaches) show +12V when you turn the key to "start"?

Do you have any sort of an electrical tester? For simple "go - no go" testing, I find that a cheap bulb & probe tester works well. With one of these, you can quickly trace where power is going and where it stops.


Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 03-31-2018 at 03:53 PM.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Do you have 12 volts on other circuits? Do the lights work?
Everything else appears to be working.

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-31-2018, 06:19 PM
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You either have no 12 volt power to the solenoid when you turn the switch to START or you have no 12 volt power at the big red wire to the starter or you have no good ground connection between the engine bellhousing and the car body or you have poor battery power connections.
Find the black wire that goes to the solenoid and push a pin through the wire so that it goes through the conductor. Connect the red lead of your voltmeter to pin and the black lead of your voltmeter to ground then watch the voltmeter when your wife or girl friend turns the switch to START. If it goes to 12 volt then you have a good ignition switch, If you have 12V but do not hear a click from the solenoid then it is bad, If you hear a click but the engine does not turn then you have either a a bad starter or a bad connection on one end of the ground braid that runs between the bell housing and the chassis, near the starter or a bad connection at one of the battery power wires.

Ed Prytherch
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A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke

Last edited by alfaparticle; 03-31-2018 at 06:21 PM.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Find the black wire that goes to the solenoid and push a pin through the wire so that it goes through the conductor. Connect the red lead of your voltmeter to pin and the black lead of your voltmeter to ground then watch the voltmeter when your wife or girl friend turns the switch to START. If it goes to 12 volt then you have a good ignition switch, If you have 12V but do not hear a click from the solenoid then it is bad, If you hear a click but the engine does not turn then you have either a a bad starter or a bad connection on one end of the ground braid that runs between the bell housing and the chassis, near the starter or a bad connection at one of the battery power wires.
Except that I had my 9 YO daughter turn the switch to start (my wife was busy and my girlfriend's out of town), I did what you suggested. The voltmeter read .2 and I heard no clicks. BTW, beforehand, I put on a brand new braid to rule that out. I do read 12+ volts at the solenoid terminal where the big red and black wires are attached with the key in either the off or on position. I have a bad ignition switch?

1986 Spider Grad (one owner) converted to 1973 2L w/dual Webers in 2018, 2007 Honda Spirit VT1100C, 1980 Honda CX500 Custom, 2017 Triumph Tiger Explorer XRt, 1971 VW Beetle Convertible (complete restoration in progress for the wife)
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