Engine Seized? - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #61 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 05:57 AM
Pull the motor and trans as a unit. The key is getting the back end of the car up as much as you can. Move the engine strap forward one bank of studs. If the motor mount bolts are old and collapsed it can make the bottom nuts hard to remove. Use your engine lift to pull the motor up and that should give you the space you need to get at those nuts.
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post #62 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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@spiderserie4 Thanks for pointing out those links; I missed them somehow in the FAQ. I have looked down the idler area, and found no foreign objects, debris or damage.

@alfaparticle my concern is that the bulk of engine and transmission together may be more than I can maneuver by myself. I have the radiator pulled from the car; will that give me enough room to maneuver the engine back into place on the trans if I leave the trans in place?

@gprocket that's a good point about the motor mount bolts. I see in your photo how high you have the rear jacked up. I cannot approach that height...I'll only get whatever a jackstand can provide!

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. The head is still on the block. I had removed the camshafts to check for rotation, thinking that allowed the valves to retract; should I have pulled the whole head? I'm not sure the best way to get the head off if I cannot rotate the engine.

This is certainly my most ambitious Alfa project to date. I've been diligently taking photos, and putting all the screws, bolts, etc. in labeled baggies. It will pay off when re-assembly time comes!

NOTE: I cannot emphasize enough how helpful it was to take digital photos, and bag & label all the parts. In the end, I had no extra or missing parts. I labeled the wiring connectors with white electrical tape and wrote on it with blue sharpie; that didn't hold up well. Next time, I may try some cloth tape and a paint pen.

-Kevin
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post #63 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 09:55 AM
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For an owner working out of their garage, I suggest separating the engine and transmission. Leave the head on the block.
Remove the driveline, transmission, exhaust from under the car.
Definitely photo/ mark all wiring, fuel lines.
You may need a tool to separate the head from block. You can fabricate one using a couple sawed off spark plugs welded to two studs, and a block of wood.
Lots of help here on the forum to guide you through the process.
Cheers, Jon

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post #64 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 10:47 AM
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So here's the deal with the members and advice. You can already see a 180 degree difference of approaches between very knowledgeable members. This doesn't mean one is wrong !! You can see that either approach is ok-- so pick the one you want! I'm a garage mechanic and have done it both ways; by myself at 58 years old.

To be honest -- there's more effort wasted trying to get every pro and con for both ways (with and without trans) than there might possibly be in one way or the other in actually doing it.
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post #65 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Oh! I hadn't even thought of dropping the trans out of the car first, then raising the engine. I think that's manageable with my available resources.

The head seems like it's on pretty tight. I'll try the welded spark plug trick.

Fortunately the exhaust manifold was held on with brass nuts, so I had no problem getting it and the downpipe loose. Removed the center console and the shifter in preparation for dropping the trans.

Harbor Freight has 1-ton engine hoists on sale!

-Kevin
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post #66 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 07:32 PM
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I can email you a photo/ description of how to build the head puller. You can also use the method using string/ twine.
Jon
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post #67 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 07:37 PM
The string method won't work if the crank won't rotate...

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post #68 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-08-2017, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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I can email you a photo/ description of how to build the head puller. You can also use the method using string/ twine.
Jon
If you'd email that head puller info to me, it would be great! I think you already have my gmail.

-Kevin
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post #69 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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I welded up a couple of the head pullers, ensured the head bolts were removed, and started applying pressure with the pullers. My question is, how concerned should I be about potentially stripping out the spark plug holes?

I've been tapping with the rubber mallet, letting PB Blaster soak down the studs, still no movement. I reviewed Vintre's head gasket replacement sticky to ensure I didn't miss anything.

What about using the holes where those 5 screw-in plugs are (on either side of each spark plug hole)? They would seem to be more substantial than the spark plugs.

-Kevin
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post #70 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 02:42 PM
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Tough call. I'd keep using the PB blaster and steady pressure up on the head. We know the spark plug holes can withstand 25 ft/lbs and if the depth of thread engagement is decent, I'd be inclined to really go for it. In the end, if the spark plug holes do end up needing helicoil, it wont be difficult.

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post #71 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 02:48 PM
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I broke a couple of home made pullers at about 50 ft-lb. The spark plug threads were fine.

Sometimes you get one that simply won't come off. I once managed to lift one about an inch but it would go no further. 65Sprint had a similar situation after many weeks of work and he finally cut the studs to rescue the head and sacrifice the block. Even with the studs cut he had to really beat on a couple of them. The usual cause is not changing the antifreeze regularly but radiator stop leak will also gum them up.

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post #72 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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I wanted to make 4 of the pullers, but only two of the spark plugs broke cleanly, so I have a puller screwed into cylinders 1 and 4.

I've tapped on the studs with a rubber mallet, and get a ringing sound...makes me think the studs are vibrating and therefore somewhat loose against the head.

I hadn't used stop leak in the radiator before this event...not normally a big fan of that sort of repair. Hard to say what PO may have done over the years.

There's a maintenance procedure on our helicopters where we use dry ice to shrink down a part that goes onto our main rotor mast. Maybe I need a drive-in freezer to pop this thing loose!

-Kevin
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post #73 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 03:01 PM
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Did you remove the two bolts on the front of the head. Underneath each corner, just above the water pump
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1967 Spider
1974 GTV (1969 Tribute)
1993 Spider ( project)
2018 Stelvio
Past:
1964 Giulia Sprint. 1966 Giulietta 101 Sprint
1967 Super 1968 GTV 1974 Berlina
1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia 1987 Milano
Non Alfa:
1953 MGTD 1958 TR3 1962 AH 3000 MKII
1969 AMX
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post #74 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 05:40 PM
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Remember there are two bolts on the head that come up from the bottom at the front of the engine - under the corners of the chain opening. You can pull forever if you don't take them out.

As to handling the engine: I got an engine stand from harbor freight, and rented a hydraulic engine hoist from the local rental shop. The assembly weighs so little that you can extend the boom all the way out. Might even get a hoist from HF for under $200 on sale.

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post #75 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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We're thinking alike! I had to go back and ensure that I had already taken the bolts out.

I finally got the head off. I eventually broke it free with the spark plug tools, but then it would only raise a couple of inches. I kept hitting the studs with WD-40, and used an engine hoist to keep vertical pressure on it. It finally wriggled free. There was a lot of gunk on the studs from oil seeping into the coolant.

I didn't expect to find a smoking gun in the heads, having already eliminated that possibility by removing the camshafts. It did give me a first good look at the pistons and sleeves. Other than what I guess is normal carbon build-up, nothing unusual there.

I picked up an engine hoist from HF earlier this week. $169, plus I had a $50 off coupon...what a bargain! I also scored some 6"x6" square pipe to make an engine stand adapter...although, since I'm dropping the trans before I yank the engine, I could use the rear bellhousing to mount it.
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-Kevin
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