Engine Seized? - Page 25 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #361 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-16-2017, 08:35 AM
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I have two new timing cover gaskets. They are .022" thick.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
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post #362 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'm ready to put the front cover assembly onto the block.



It's starting to look like an engine again. The amount of parts strewn around my garage is diminishing. So far, I have no extra parts, nor am I missing any. I can't ask for much more than that at this phase.
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-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #363 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-17-2017, 11:23 PM
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I hope you don't have extra parts; this isn't Ikea furniture that you're assembling! Although 'Nord' could be the name of a coffee table

Stout work, sir. I wish that I would have tackled my engine like you did. I payed for mine to be done...still wondering if I made the best decision, there.

86 spider Veloce
74 TR6
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post #364 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 02:29 AM
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looking good!

remember liner protrusion...
and distributor/oilpump orientation (nice to get it back correct, rather than 180 out)

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #365 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 05:45 AM
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Looking good! If you haven't yet it's a good idea to run a wire brush through the head stud holes in the head and wire brush on a drill clean the head studs. The last thing you want is a piece of crud scraping loose and falling down on the head gasket when you lower the head on.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #366 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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@John533i, I had little choice but to do it myself. There aren't any Alfa-knowledgable shops around Mid-Missouri. I will say though, that if this thing runs after I get it back together, nobody will be more surprised than me! I will also have lost any trepidation about doing any sort of mechanical or electrical work on my Alfa (paint and body work is another matter entirely).

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I always thought that if the engine ever crapped out, that I'd just junk the Spider and look for another one. I've had this car for about 4 1/2 years, and didn't pay that much for it in the first place. I discovered that I'm more attached to this car than I realized, or was willing to admit.

@spiderserie4, the distributor goes inside the front cover, and the oil pump on the outside, right? Just kidding. I even did the procedure outlined in the manual where you loosen the oil pump mounting bolts, rotate the crank two full turns, then torque the oil pump back down. I guess the purpose of that is to ensure the pinion gear is meshing well with the oil pump gear. The liner height was perfect. Of course, I'm using new liners and seals, and had cleaned really well around the area where the liners sit.

@gigem75, thanks for the tip. I've cleaned up the studs, but didn't think about the holes in the head. I'll be certain to get those.

Here's a few photos showing how everything's lining up:

Distributor rotor right at the index mark:


Front pulley on the P mark:


Flywheel index mark at the 12 o'clock position...there's also a handy notch in the spacer:


I have to say that the Engine Overhaul Manual has been worth its weight in gold! I'd be lost without it. It details the procedures in order, and has accompanying line drawings and torque specs at each step of the way. Any ambiguities have been cleared up with AlfaBB or online videos. @Vintre's engine overhaul thread has been most helpful as well.
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-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

Last edited by Shakey; 11-18-2017 at 10:43 PM.
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post #367 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 06:25 PM
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@spiderserie4,I even did the procedure outlined in the manual where you loosen the oil pump mounting bolts, rotate the crank two full turns, then torque the oil pump back down. I guess the purpose of that is to ensure the pinion gear is meshing well with the oil pump gear.
Yes, and to minimize the chance of a bind in the oil pump shaft. Looking good. Enjoy the final assembly work.

Rich Hanning
'65 Sprint GT, '78 Spider, '88 Quad

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post #368 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 07:43 PM
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Yes, and to minimize the chance of a bind in the oil pump shaft. Looking good. Enjoy the final assembly work.
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@spiderserie4, the distributor goes inside the front cover, and the oil pump on the outside, right? Just kidding. I even did the procedure outlined in the manual where you loosen the oil pump mounting bolts, rotate the crank two full turns, then torque the oil pump back down. I guess the purpose of that is to ensure the pinion gear is meshing well with the oil pump gear.
What is prone to happening is the fuel pump lobe on the oil pump will rub on the timing cover which send small metal flakes into the oil pan. So its very important to center the oil pump like you did.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #369 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:41 PM
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Nice work! Get some white paint and get it into the marks on the pulley and wipe it off the higher part and you'll have an easy line to see when you put a light on it.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #370 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 08:54 PM
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And don't forget to torque up those flywheel bolts ... with loctite (I use it anyway) ...

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #371 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-18-2017, 09:28 PM
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OK. I'll add a warning. If your Dizzy is a bit worn, the drive cog at the bottom gets a bit loose. It engages an offset slot at the top of the oil pump. Sometimes it is just possible to put the dizzy in 180 degrees out of sync. Then it puts a lateral load on the top of the oil pump shaft.

Of course I did exactly that. After a few miles the wiggle broke the oil pump shaft and the engine died instantly (no Dizzy!)

Just something to look out for not in the manual.

Robert
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post #372 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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OK. I'll add a warning. If your Dizzy is a bit worn, the drive cog at the bottom gets a bit loose. It engages an offset slot at the top of the oil pump. Sometimes it is just possible to put the dizzy in 180 degrees out of sync. Then it puts a lateral load on the top of the oil pump shaft.

Of course I did exactly that. After a few miles the wiggle broke the oil pump shaft and the engine died instantly (no Dizzy!)

Just something to look out for not in the manual.

Robert
That got me to thinking, so I double-checked the distributor and oil pump. My distributor will only mate with the oil pump shaft one way, so I guess I had it right.

Thanks for the tip!

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #373 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 03:03 PM
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Generally all the alignment bits have to be right to not have troubles. Timing chain in the right phase, cams OK, compression on #1 cylinder, Dizzy in the rings phase with the oil pump drive, dizzy center piece pointing forward. It's hard to get all these right and still have the problem I did.

But my dizzy was pretty badly worn, and I just managed to get it in wrong. I may have had one of the other items off too - this was a long time and a lot of experience ago.

But I'll never forget getting stranded like that!

Robert
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post #374 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 04:50 PM
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Generally all the alignment bits have to be right to not have troubles. Timing chain in the right phase, cams OK, compression on #1 cylinder, Dizzy in the rings phase with the oil pump drive, dizzy center piece pointing forward. It's hard to get all these right and still have the problem I did.

But my dizzy was pretty badly worn, and I just managed to get it in wrong. I may have had one of the other items off too - this was a long time and a lot of experience ago.

But I'll never forget getting stranded like that!

Robert
I wish I could say I've only heard about this...
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post #375 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-19-2017, 05:31 PM
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I wish I could say I've only heard about this...
My daddy told me the best way to learn something is to make a few mistakes, and focus on not repeating them. Oh, and be ready to do it over. I only made this particular error once, and I hope I can prevent someone else from repeating it.

The error can be made easily from the top of the engine - just push the Dizzy in wrong. The fix is enormous - you have to pull the pan off (mostly best done by pulling the entire engine) to get at the oil pump.

Once you do that you might as well send the pump to Gordon Raymond, who will rebuild you the absolutely best oil pump in all of Alfadom!

It is but one of the many things I have "learned" about Alfas.

Robert
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