Engine Seized? - Page 23 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 184Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #331 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
@spiderserie4, I hadn't considered that the bigger tabs were for coarser threads. I thought it was just an unfortunate design choice. I guess Alfas had different thread pitches for different series.

I've seen photos of S4 engines without the pal nuts. I'm thinking I'll just use locknuts, and torque them to the pal nut value.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 01:21 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
horsewidower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wilton Ca
Posts: 2,295
I'd leave them off and not substitute with anything. The rods are held on by bolt stretch, locknuts at that low torque setting adds no security.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


View my '91 164s adventure at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
horsewidower is offline  
post #333 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by horsewidower View Post
I'd leave them off and not substitute with anything. The rods are held on by bolt stretch, locknuts at that low torque setting adds no security.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I certainly do not claim to be smarter than the designers, but I was wondering how much good those lock nuts could possibly be doing at that low of a torque value. My only thought was it was possibly related to harmonic vibrations. We encounter plenty of that engineering consideration in turbine engines.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #334 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 02:10 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
horsewidower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wilton Ca
Posts: 2,295
Exactly. You should also consider that adding any appreciable weight to the big end, changes your balance. I don't know how many grams the nut weighs that you are considering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


View my '91 164s adventure at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
horsewidower is offline  
post #335 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by horsewidower View Post
Exactly. You should also consider that adding any appreciable weight to the big end, changes your balance. I don't know how many grams the nut weighs that you are considering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're exactly right. The good news is, that this is on the stationary main bearing caps. If this were on the connecting rod bearings, it would be a whole different story!
horsewidower likes this.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #336 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 02:26 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
horsewidower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wilton Ca
Posts: 2,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
You're exactly right. The good news is, that this is on the stationary main bearing caps. If this were on the connecting rod bearings, it would be a whole different story!


DOH!!!

So much for my reading comprehension score today.

Carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


View my '91 164s adventure at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
horsewidower is offline  
post #337 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 03:00 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,413
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Loctite ...

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #338 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,266
I've never used the locktabs on con rods. Red locktite is just fine. I'm pretty sure the Centerline torque sheet has red on the con rods. Just make sure you don't need to take them off after several hours because something "came up". Cleaning all that hardened red stuff off the bolts and nuts is a pain, don't ask me how I know.
The pal nuts when first used can be hard to get started because you are basically threading them onto the main studs since the ends of the tabs that go into the threads are all in the same plane and you have to get them pitched to go on. Not having seen yours that may not be your problem but it's worth mentioning.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #339 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
My connecting rods just had the nut/washer, no pal nuts nor loctite.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

Last edited by Shakey; 11-11-2017 at 02:03 PM.
Shakey is offline  
post #340 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-10-2017, 08:04 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,266
Connecting rods don't need washers or locktabs with locktite. Palnuts are not used on the connecting rods so they shouldn't have had them. locktite = peace of mind.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #341 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
After pondering the cigarette seal issue, and reading through the forum a bit, I went with @Vintre's Ultra Copper method. I'm still waiting for it to completely cure before I trim the excess off.

I also put some Ultra Gray on the main bearing cap and main seal. That whole area of the block seems like a torturous design; no wonder there's leak problems.


-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #342 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-11-2017, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
Here's how the engine overhaul manual would have you position the piston rings:



I'm a bit uncertain regarding the aa and dd lines. I'm guessing that aa is the axis of the pins? I read on the forums that you don't want any ring gap over the pin. The Hastings instructions address the offset of the gaps for the three components of the oil ring.

EDIT: My thoughts were correct. I found a YouTube video where the individual briefly discusses the thrust line. I should also mention that the Hastings piston rings that I bought from Classic Alfa measured perfectly on their gap.


-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

Last edited by Shakey; 11-11-2017 at 04:43 PM.
Shakey is offline  
post #343 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
The pistons and liners are all in, and everything is still working smoothly. The liners I bought from Classic Alfa came already honed and washed. I washed them again anyway, just to be sure. All measurements have checked out, and I've had no real issues with reassembly so far.

It's starting to look like an engine again! I'm waiting for a warm day, so I can do some touch-up painting in the engine compartment. I also need to pull the oil pan guard off and clean it up. I still have some gasket-scraping on the water pump and oil pans, but progress continues.

I've ordered some transmission parts to stop the oil leaking from the shift tower. Before the engine goes back into the car, I think I'm going to do the 1st and 2nd gear fixes. This will be new territory for me, as I've never done any transmission work before.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #344 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 08:07 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,266
I didn't know Classic Alfa sold Hastings rings. Good thing you washed the liners, no vendor can clean them the way the end user can or should for that manner. Looking good! If you don't have them I'd highly recommend a pair of at least 9 inch snap ring pliers for the syncros.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #345 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-12-2017, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
I didn't know Classic Alfa sold Hastings rings. Good thing you washed the liners, no vendor can clean them the way the end user can or should for that manner. Looking good! If you don't have them I'd highly recommend a pair of at least 9 inch snap ring pliers for the syncros.
The rings gapped right in the middle of the allowable range. The liners were very clean; it was more an exercise in 'peace of mind' to wash them again. I have a whole set of snap-ring pliers...I'll check to make sure I have one of those. Thanks for the tip!

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome