Engine Seized? - Page 21 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 184Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #301 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 06:10 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,266
This stuff is in my humble opinion second to none for assembly,
Lubriplate L0034-094 No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease, 10 oz

https://www.amazon.com/Lubriplate-L0...=assembly+lube

Yes the bearing reliefs go in the same side, it's the part of the bearing that is tanged out to keep them in place, each half has one as do the main caps and block. No one pays attention to that when disassembling so don't worry about it. It's the going back together that matters and it would be really hard to get that wrong. the numbers on the con rods go on the exhaust side (very important) the arrow on the pistons point to the exhaust side, you can use locktite on the con rod nuts but only oil on the main caps, the pal nuts on the mains do the locking, and don't forget the thrust washers on the center main bearing. Shirley you are using new main and con rod bearings so get new thrust washers too. the rear main cig seals can be tricky, I put a dab of ultra grey at the bottom of the cig seals to keep oil from weeping out that area of the main bearing. When they are all the way seated there should be no more than two or three millimeters sticking up, shave that off with a razor blade. Everyone has their own methods and all are fine, use the one you feel best with.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider

Last edited by gigem75; 11-06-2017 at 06:13 PM.
gigem75 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #302 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
That's what camera phones are for isn't it? And thousands of plastic freezer bags (strongest) and permanent markers...

All these little details on how to actually do all this that never show up in the manuals. I learned most of it by watching (and pestering) better experts when I was very young.

And I also followed Rule #1: Make all possible mistakes until the only thing left is to do it right.

Robert
I actually have a digital shop camera for this, and have burned through three boxes of ziploc bags, and 2 blue sharpies. So far, I haven't lost a single part.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #303 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 06:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,272
It's the bearing inserts he's referring to. There is a notch in the bearing in the block - and in the bearing cap - that mates with a "tang" on the bearing insert; these keep the bearing from spinning. Put both notches on the same side.

Robert
60sRacer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #304 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 07:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: beautiful Bucks county PA
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
It's the bearing inserts he's referring to. There is a notch in the bearing in the block - and in the bearing cap - that mates with a "tang" on the bearing insert; these keep the bearing from spinning. Put both notches on the same side.

Robert
The tangs locate the bearing shells in their bores. They do not keep the bearing from spinning-that's done by the "crush" on the bearing halves when the parts are assembled. There are many modern engines with fracture split con rods that have no locating tang on the bearing shell.
Chas H is online now  
post #305 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
I've installed the crank and all main bearings.

It spins like BUTTER!

My concerns about correctly identifying the 'smoking gun' have been assuaged.
Milanoguy and cuorealfa like this.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #306 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
The tangs locate the bearing shells in their bores. They do not keep the bearing from spinning-that's done by the "crush" on the bearing halves when the parts are assembled. There are many modern engines with fracture split con rods that have no locating tang on the bearing shell.

Oh! Woe is me! I'm completely wrong - except that I answered his question perfectly. Go away nit picker.

Robert
60sRacer is offline  
post #307 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:33 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
gigem75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 6,266
Actually when you get down to it what keeps the bearing from spinning is the oil film between the bearing and crankshaft that keeps them from touching each other. Take that away and you will spin a bearing tang or no tang, crush or no crush.
Milanoguy likes this.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #308 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 12:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,868
Garage
Did the crank need work?
Perhaps this has been covered in the last few pages.

Oh, and post some pics.. We love pics

'66 1600 Duetto | '73 1600 GTJunior | '03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon | '11 Giulietta QV (wow, revelation) | I really don't need this many Alfa's...
Craig_m67 is offline  
post #309 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 04:12 AM
Registered User
 
sbadaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Amman - Jordan
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
I've installed the crank and all main bearings.

It spins like BUTTER!

My concerns about correctly identifying the 'smoking gun' have been assuaged.
You lost me with the second s in assauged... question as my girl is about on par with your build (though crank is spinning... not quite like butter though), is it true that leaving oily thumb print on the pistons or the bearings will prevent proper lubrication in that area... old wives tales or true sciense?
How about a video of the crank spinning 'like butter'.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
sbadaro is offline  
post #310 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
@sbadaro, my apologies. I forget the international audience. "Assuage" is a less wordy way of saying I made an unpleasant feeling (in this case, uncertainty regarding my troubleshooting) less intense, or eliminated it completely.

Since I didn't find a bent or broken part, spun or overheated bearing, I was harboring some nagging doubt as to whether or not I had actually identified the problem as the #2 and #4 bearings.

@Craig_m67, I took the crank, head, and block to a machine shop. Crank was straight and required no machining, the head was flat, and the block was straight. To me, this indicates no unwarranted heating action...which only added to my doubts.
sbadaro likes this.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

Last edited by Shakey; 11-07-2017 at 06:55 AM.
Shakey is offline  
post #311 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 09:22 AM
Registered User
 
John533i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,291
What all did you have the machine shop do, then? Just clean the block and surface the head?

86 spider Veloce
74 TR6
John533i is offline  
post #312 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 09:47 AM
Registered User
 
sbadaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Amman - Jordan
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
@sbadaro, my apologies. I forget the international audience. "Assuage" is a less wordy way of saying I made an unpleasant feeling (in this case, uncertainty regarding my troubleshooting) less intense, or eliminated it completely.

Since I didn't find a bent or broken part, spun or overheated bearing, I was harboring some nagging doubt as to whether or not I had actually identified the problem as the #2 and #4 bearings.

@Craig_m67, I took the crank, head, and block to a machine shop. Crank was straight and required no machining, the head was flat, and the block was straight. To me, this indicates no unwarranted heating action...which only added to my doubts.
Well in my case wasn't a hard job finding the culprit

or the victims...



Apparently no. 3 is always the first to go...

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
sbadaro is offline  
post #313 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 10:25 AM
Registered User
 
BrundleFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Manitou Springs, CO
Posts: 86
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
I put a dab of ultra grey at the bottom of the cig seals to keep oil from weeping out that area of the main bearing. When they are all the way seated there should be no more than two or three millimeters sticking up, shave that off with a razor blade.
I thought the seals were deliberately manufactured to be a little long so that they're compressed by the oil pan, causing them to expand in the bores for a better seal:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...tml#post135497
BrundleFly is offline  
post #314 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 10:41 AM
Registered User
 
BrundleFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Manitou Springs, CO
Posts: 86
Garage
Oops. Nevermind. Misattributed a photo.
BrundleFly is offline  
post #315 of 572 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 540
@John533i, I had the machine shop check the crank for straightness, and polish the journals. They checked the head for flatness, and it was good; no resurfacing required. Since crankshaft rotation was the location of the binding, I had them check the block for straightness across the journals; it was good. They wouldn't hot tank the head and block because they were aluminum (afraid they'd warp them...I think more afraid that they were Alfa), so I've been cleaning them up by hand.

@sbadaro, that looks bad!

@BrundleFly, you are correct. The engine overhaul manual says to leave the extra length of the cigarette seals protruding, so they will be compressed by the pan. I test-fitted my seals before installing the rear bearing, and they're nearly flush anyway; maybe 1mm of extra length. These are from the Spesso gasket set, so different brands may vary.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome