Engine Seized? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 184Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 10:08 AM
USTA BE AN AD-MIN
Platinum SubscriberAdministrator
 
ossodiseppia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 11,033
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Water pumps don't tend to seize, but even if your's did, the fan belt can't transmit that much power. That is, even with a stuck water pump, the crankshaft would keep turning while the belt just slipped.
Don't know about that. The shaft on the water pump of my old 75 Alfetta sheared off as I was exiting the highway, back in the day. The only explanation for that would be a seized bearing.

Brian __________________________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ossodiseppia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 11:14 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
not2old4toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sisters, Oregon
Posts: 2,461
Garage
No silver bullet fix it sounds like. When an engine seizes it usually doesn't roll slowly to a stop. It's an immediate stop, followed by sounds you may not recognize. I would remove the starter as a first step. This will eliminate a stuck starter drive. With starter removed you can push car forward while in gear. Removing the cam cover will aid you in watching camshaft for movement. Removing the spark plugs and inserting a long screwdriver will also show piston movement.
Good luck, Jon

Present:
1967 Spider
1974 GTV (1969 Tribute)
1993 Spider ( project)
2018 Stelvio
Past:
1964 Giulia Sprint. 1966 Giulietta 101 Sprint
1967 Super 1968 GTV 1974 Berlina
1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia 1987 Milano
Non Alfa:
1953 MGTD 1958 TR3 1962 AH 3000 MKII
1969 AMX
not2old4toys is offline  
post #18 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 11:27 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia View Post
Don't know about that. The shaft on the water pump of my old 75 Alfetta sheared off as .....
Well sure, that's why I wrote "don't tend to seize" rather than "absolutely never seize". But I think you'll agree that even if Shakey's water pump shaft had sheared off, as your 75 Alfetta's did, it wouldn't lock up the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by not2old4toys
When an engine seizes it usually doesn't roll slowly to a stop. It's an immediate stop, followed by sounds you may not recognize.
Agree. That's why Shakey's symptoms are a bit puzzling. The engine seems to have gotten more and more stuck after the first few minutes of his drive.

Something tells me that when the autopsy is completed, the STP will be charged with the crime.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 10-03-2017 at 11:35 AM.
Alfajay is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
alfaparticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 12,968
STP will increase the viscosity of the oil and raise the oil pressure but I don't see how it would cause an engine to seize.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
alfaparticle is offline  
post #20 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 11:42 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
STP will increase the viscosity of the oil and raise the oil pressure but I don't see how it would cause an engine to seize.
Agree. I can't describe a mechanism that would allow STP to create a seizure either. Even if the higher viscosity locked up the oil pump, the pump shaft would have sheared, allowing the car to still roll while in gear.

But you have to admit that it's odd to have an Alfa that was running fine before STP, yet locked up a few miles after adding it. Could be a coincidence, but ....

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
Alfajay is offline  
post #21 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 545
If I borrow from Occam's Razor, the simplest answer is the right one.

I either dropped something down the oil hole (although I cannot find anything missing), or there was something in the STP.

Either way, it doesn't sound like it's going to be simple, cheap, quick, or easy.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #22 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Is there oil in sump?
Oil level good, not black or burnt smelling.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #23 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 01:48 PM
Registered User
 
IRONBLOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,656
Garage
I have a similar problem with a Duetto. A mechanic friend mentioned that the issue could have been caused by ethanol in the gasoline 'washing' oil from the cylinders and causing the piston rings to weld themselves to the cylinder walls.

So far, I have tried 'Engine Release', 'Marvel Mystery Oil' and 'Evapo-rust' to no avail. I suspect the engine will have to come back out and be rebuilt again, after barely 33 years.

Mark
sbadaro likes this.
IRONBLOCK is offline  
post #24 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
xalfaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rough and Ready, CA
Posts: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Water pumps don't tend to seize, but even if your's did, the fan belt can't transmit that much power. That is, even with a stuck water pump, the crankshaft would keep turning while the belt just slipped.



Yea, though I doubt you will see much. It would be interesting to de-couple the cams from the crankshaft to see which of the two are stuck. My guess is the crankshaft, perhaps some odd effect of the STP.

I once had similar symptoms on a newly-assembled engine. Turned out to be an 8 mm bolt wedged between the back of the crankshaft pulley and the front cover.
Odd effect of the STP, good thought. If the STP was put into a cold engine I wonder if it could have plugged an oil line to a main bearing causing a slow seizure?

I once had a similar problem with my 62 Spider(my Avatar). I turned off the engine after the last session at Laguna. The next morning the engine would not turn over. After checking the obvious things I removed the pan( a real chore on a 101 Veloce). I found that one of the crankshaft plugs had come out and lodged in the oil passage hole in a main journal in such a way that the crank could not turn.

Hope your problem is easier to solve than mine.
xalfaracer is offline  
post #25 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 03:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: beautiful Bucks county PA
Posts: 333
Since there is oil in the engine,it can be drained out and inspected for debris from failed bearings.
I seriously doubt the starter is causing the problem as the car does not roll in gear. @Shakey-Have you tried starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed and with it not depressed? Just to eliminate the trans as the cause of your problem.
Chas H is offline  
post #26 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Have you tried starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed and with it not depressed? Just to eliminate the trans as the cause of your problem.
Yes, good thought. Plus, we used a strap to tow it home with the trans in neutral.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #27 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-03-2017, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Shakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia, Missouri, USA
Posts: 545
I'm hoping to start taking a serious look at the Alfa tomorrow. I have to tidy up a few other projects first, before I can start troubleshooting in earnest.

I got the wife's '76 Super Beetle put back together today, and will test-drive it tomorrow. I'm also going to try and finish the Alfa's 3D printed door trim tomorrow as well. Cleaning up after those projects will give me the space I need to start spreading out engine parts in the garage!

I appreciate all the ideas and observations everyone has contributed. It's good to have a sounding board to ensure I'm thinking straight. I appreciate this site, and those on it!

I'm on a VW board for my old beetles, and the culture there is quite different. One would think that air-cooled VW folks would be laid back, but NO. A lot of sniping, flames, and talking down to people new to the VW scene. As an example, a guy posted a photo of his VW engine compartment, asking for help with a specific problem. It was like a feeding frenzy, with several people telling him what he was doing 'wrong' with his engine, and why he's stupid, maybe he shouldn't even own a Bug, etc. He finally got some honest help. Not a good culture.

Thanks again guys, I'll keep you posted on my findings.
John533i and nickypp like this.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
Shakey is offline  
post #28 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-04-2017, 12:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wales
Posts: 24
was this issue solved?
Jackocooper is offline  
post #29 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-04-2017, 01:06 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,556
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Hmmm ...

A spun bearing will knock, so suspect a piston has grabbed the bore ...
Pete
sbadaro likes this.

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is online now  
post #30 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-04-2017, 01:42 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,202
check carefully the lower chain and idler sprocket when you take off the cam cover.
maybe a bolt/nut/camchain adjuster wedge (or something!) has fallen off onto this, got chewed around a bit and then finally locked it tight (or worse)
sbadaro likes this.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome