Engine Seized? - Page 17 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #241 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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The Hastings web site says 220-280 is good for their chrome, moly, or plain cast iron rings.

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/...re-refinishing

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #242 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Another dumb question: the valve guide seals have really hardened, and so far, I've been unsuccessful getting them off. I was reluctant to get too aggressive, for fear of damaging the guides. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Okay, a little heat gun action made the old seals pliable enough to pull off the guides. My engine has seals on intake and exhaust valve guides...I read somewhere that Alfa didn't start doing that until the S4's. Classic Alfa and Centerline both have green valve guide seals.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

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post #243 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 08:00 PM
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If you might ever want to get one of RJ's super cam sets, now it the time to prepare. All you need is to replace the valve guides, and maybe shorten the valve keepers. Also, if you notch the cam follower bores (simple machine shop job) you have access to the best high-lift cams. See RJ's sticky thread for all the details.

I'm not pushing any of this. I just want to encourage you to make these choices intentionally, rather than by default.

Robert
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post #244 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 60sRacer View Post
If you might ever want to get one of RJ's super cam sets, now it the time to prepare. All you need is to replace the valve guides, and maybe shorten the valve keepers. Also, if you notch the cam follower bores (simple machine shop job) you have access to the best high-lift cams. See RJ's sticky thread for all the details.

I'm not pushing any of this. I just want to encourage you to make these choices intentionally, rather than by default.

Robert
You make me want to find a spare engine to build up. You naughty boy!

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #245 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 09:22 PM
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Well, then, how about a set of Spreull's domed pistons in +2 oversize with new liners.

And a lightweight (aluminum?) flywheel and clutch disc.

And his stiffer engine mounts with covers.

Oh, I have a gorgeous polished cam cover for you.

And......



Robert
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post #246 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 09:31 PM
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Starts like #1 (actually this one has already had some work)

Ends like #2

No plating, just polished aluminum.



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horsewidower and BiancaSpider like this.
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post #247 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-29-2017, 09:33 PM
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Yes.The seals on the exhaust side started on the S4's. I don't know how many miles are on the engine. But the Bosch injected 4 cylinders usually burned an exhaust valve between 50,000 to 80,000 miles. The average milage was around 70,000. I worked one these cars when they were new at several Alfa dealers and independent shops.

The reason they did this was because of 2 things. 1st. The valves not being checked and adjusted at 30,000 miles like there suppose to be. The 2nd and main reason is how lean they were set up to run to pass emissions. The car was set to have a c/o of .20 with the O2 sensor plug in. You would set the mixture to around .70 percent then when you plug in the O2 sensor it pulled it down to .20.

Nowadays I set the mixture to around 1.5 percent with the O2 unplug. If it has to pass emissions you will need to set it the the factory setting.

Also keep in mind that most of these cars were daily drivers when new. Most of my customers back then put an average of 20,000 to 30,000 miles a year.

Without knowing your milage. I know it has had at least one valve job. Also a lot of shops started using the intake guides on the exhaust to reduce the tendency to suck oil through the valve guide. This is the reason Alfa did it.

You need to let the machine shop check the guides. Especially the exhaust as they are probably worn.

Oh. Only use the green seals. If you have to replace the guides get the correct ones that use the green seals.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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Last edited by Jim G; 10-31-2017 at 08:30 PM. Reason: corrected CO percent numbers
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post #248 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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@Jim G, the car has 95,338 miles on it. The engine having a previous valve job makes sense, given the evidence of other work that's been done.

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Nowadays I set the mixture to around 1.5 percent with the O2 unplug. If it has to pass emissions you will need to set it the the factory setting.
Where are you setting this mixture? I don't have an emissions test to contend with.

The head certainly has intake-style valve guides on the exhaust side too. It makes me wonder where this car resided before it came to Missouri. There's certainly no machine shop around here that will do that sort of work on an Alfa!

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #249 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 11:25 AM
Now would certainly be the time to replace the guides. You can R&R them relatively easily. Here is a youtube video with the method I use for removing them:


If you want to install the new guides yourself it is best to make a simple tool (I can't find my drawing at the moment but it's in JKs book) to protect the end and set to the proper depth. I like to freeze them (in the freezer for a couple days). They will drive in pretty easily. Then they need to be reamed to size. If all this is too daunting, take it to a competent shop.

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post #250 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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I ran across that Youtube video when I was trying to get the valve guide seals out. He makes it look easy.

At this point, I'm probably not going to replace the guides. Visually, they look to be in good shape. Since I appear to have intake guides in the exhaust, I'm betting on the fact that they were replaced during some previous maintenance. That kind of detail work is a bit overwhelming for me at the moment; I may do more harm than good...and I need to get this thing back on the road.

There are no shops around here that will do that kind of work on a vintage European engine, much less an Alfa. I envy you guys that can take stuff to an Alfa engine guy, or an Alfa trans guy. I have none of that here. What import shops we do have are simply 'pull-and-replace' guys, and they only work on British or German import stuff. I've asked, they won't work on Alfas.

There used to be a place in Kansas City that would do work, but their website has gone dark, and they don't answer emails or phone calls anymore.

-Kevin
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post #251 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:32 PM
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Good machine shops can install K-line valve guide inserts in your valve guides. This will save you the trouble of removing and replacing them. If you are going to remove them yourself, I recommend heating the head before you drive the guides out (same goes for driving new ones back in). This will make things a lot easier. Be sure and check your head for flatness using a machine-shop quality straight edge and feeler gauges. There are bound to be some hot-rod guys in your town. Ask them what machine shops they use and you'll find some people who can do all this work on your cylinder head. Hot-rodders may be never seen a Alfa head before (not all that likely but still possible) but they can usually be counted on to know what to do, especially given the plethora of ohc cylinder heads on modern cars.

If you want to have a shop do this work for you, I can highly recommend Robert Rogers in Dallas. He's as good as they come. Putting your head in a box and sending it to someone like Robert will solve a multitude of problems.

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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
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post #252 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 12:37 PM
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I'd suggest you look into shipping costs. I used Greyhound (!!??) to get my head from NorCal to LA at a surprisingly low cost where John Shankle did a wonder job. In your case, look into shipping to Florida - Rick Jameson of RJ Racing - who can do even better wonders.

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post #253 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 03:10 PM
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Now would certainly be the time to replace the guides. You can R&R them relatively easily. Here is a youtube video with the method I use for removing them:
.
That's doing the job backwards. I thread the other end -the valve head end- screw in a bolt, and drive the guide out from the camshaft side. This eliminates dragging the crummy end of the valve guide through the bore in the cylinder head.
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post #254 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
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@Jim G, the car has 95,338 miles on it. The engine having a previous valve job makes sense, given the evidence of other work that's been done.



Where are you setting this mixture? I don't have an emissions test to contend with.

The head certainly has intake-style valve guides on the exhaust side too. It makes me wonder where this car resided before it came to Missouri. There's certainly no machine shop around here that will do that sort of work on an Alfa!

On the airflow meter, on top by where the rubber hose is connected there is a round aluminum plug. If it is smooth on top. If its been adjusted before it will already have one or two holes in it. Drill 2 1/8 inch holes, about an 1/8inch deep so you can pull it straight up with a pair of needle nose pliers. Underneath is an allen screw. This is what you use to adjust it. Unplug the O2 sensor and using a AFI meter set it to around 1-1/2 percent. There are conversion charts on the internet you can print out. After its set plug the O2 sensor back in. If the value on the meter drops the sensor works. If it doesn't its not working. It doesn't really matter if it is or isn't working unless you need to pass emissions.

This factory manual also tells you how to do this.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #255 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-30-2017, 08:24 PM
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I use the Alfa special tool to drive them out. Basically the same as the video. Just simple and quicker. I have a NOS one for sale. I also have a lot of other Alfa tools for sale including the drivers for the valve guides and the driver for the valve stem seals and other installing tools.


http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...oval-tool.html
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1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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