Engine Seized? - Page 14 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #196 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gprocket View Post
Try installing the crank alone (ie, no pistons, etc) and see if turns. If no, then I suppose it could only be a bent crank. If yes then I think it would point to an oil starvation issue. That said, those bearings don't look all that horrible as to seize the motor...
Agree. These bearings are still grey, so plenty of meat on them.

I've run bearings in my racing days and even that did not stop the engine from turning, but admittedly that was a conrod bearing.

It appears in this case that we have still not found the smoking gun. Now that the engine is cold have we lost the cause of the seize?
Pete

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post #197 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Beerman73 View Post
What would cause a bent crank? I've seen a broken crank on a 67 camero after the manual transmission locked up.
Nothing that happened to this engine. It's really hard to bend a crank without a lot of heat. The Camaro likely had a cast iron crankshaft-the Alfa crank is forged steel.
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post #198 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 11:46 AM
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What do the rod bearings look like?
I doubt very much the crankshaft is bent. Nothing looks like it got hot. The trace we see on #2 and #4 is from some sort of debris. If the crank was bent we would see evidence on #3 bearing.
That's where I lost my old crankshaft, but explain it to me like you would to the idiot who pressed beyond 7000 rpm on a limping engine... why no. 3???

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post #199 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 12:08 PM
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That's where I lost my old crankshaft, but explain it to me like you would to the idiot who pressed beyond 7000 rpm on a limping engine... why no. 3???

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#3 because it's in the middle of the crankshaft.
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post #200 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 01:45 PM
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Be sure to put a little oil on the bearings. Then remove the two damaged ones (top and bottom) - #2 and #4 - and install all five caps. Let us know if the crank turns.

Robert
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post #201 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Be sure to put a little oil on the bearings. Then remove the two damaged ones (top and bottom) - #2 and #4 - and install all five caps. Let us know if the crank turns.

Robert
I applied a little 'control' and 'variable' to this experiment:

I wiped off the bearings and crank, applied some oil, installed the crank and all caps...no turn. So that was 'control'.

I removed all the above, removed the #2 and #4 bearings, reinstalled the crank and caps...it turns. There's 'variable'. Having said that, I would have expected the crank to turn easier than it does. I think the roughness that exists on the surface of all the bearings has a cumulative effect.

I think on Monday, I'll take the crank to a local machine shop, and have them check it out. I'm also going to take them the head and block, have them hot tank both, and check to see if the head needs surfacing.

At this point, I think my plan is to order new main bearings, rod end bearings, and of course gasket set, etc., and start putting the engine back together.

I should also be able to pick up the radiator from the radiator shop on Monday as well.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)

Last edited by Shakey; 10-21-2017 at 06:20 PM.
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post #202 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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Don't order the bearings until you have had the crankshaft checked. If it is out of alignment you will have to grind the journals to get it straight and then you will want oversize bearings.

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post #203 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Don't order the bearings until you have had the crankshaft checked. If it is out of alignment you will have to grind the journals to get it straight and then you will want oversize bearings.
Ah, good point. I forgot about that.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #204 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 07:02 PM
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You should also have the machine shop check the main bearing journal alignment.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #205 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 07:11 PM
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That is, the alignment of the holes in the block. Overheating a bearing - especially #2 and #4 can warp the block, requiring it to be line bored. This also affects bearing size.

Robert
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post #206 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-22-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
I applied a little 'control' and 'variable' to this experiment:

I wiped off the bearings and crank, applied some oil, installed the crank and all caps...no turn. So that was 'control'.

I removed all the above, removed the #2 and #4 bearings, reinstalled the crank and caps...it turns. There's 'variable'. Having said that, I would have expected the crank to turn easier than it does. I think the roughness that exists on the surface of all the bearings has a cumulative effect.

I think on Monday, I'll take the crank to a local machine shop, and have them check it out. I'm also going to take them the head and block, have them hot tank both, and check to see if the head needs surfacing.

At this point, I think my plan is to order new main bearings, rod end bearings, and of course gasket set, etc., and start putting the engine back together.

I should also be able to pick up the radiator from the radiator shop on Monday as well.
What is the condition of the thrust washers that go on the center main (#3)?
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post #207 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-22-2017, 01:09 PM
Honestly, at this point I would be looking for a good used 2L block. They are cheap and plentiful. By the time you're done chasing this problem you'll have more money spent and probably won't really know the root cause...
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post #208 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-22-2017, 01:30 PM
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Has your '88 spider crank already got the threaded plugs?

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...rankshaft.html

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post #209 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-22-2017, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Has your '88 spider crank already got the threaded plugs?

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...rankshaft.html
No, stock plugs.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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post #210 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-22-2017, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xalfaracer View Post
What is the condition of the thrust washers that go on the center main (#3)?
Thrust washers look good.

-Kevin
1988 Spider Veloce (with lots of 3D printed parts)
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