Engine Seized? - Page 13 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #181 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 06:02 PM
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#2 and #4 bearings clearly damaged, like the uppers. I'd like to see what the crank journals are like. Do you have a dial indicator? It'd be nice to see of the crank is bent. It doesn't take much to cause a lot of problems.

Robert
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post #182 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 06:28 PM
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It seems it's not uncommon for bearings 2 and 4 to fail sooner due to the way they're oiled via the crank instead of directly from the block, and with oil pressure having to oppose the centrifuge effect of the spinning crank:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engi...tml#post312815
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post #183 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 07:24 PM
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Maybe it's important to drill them in racing applications but, man, the Nord engines are reasonably famous for having strong bottom ends. Something must have gone seriously wrong.

The STP addition could be just a coincidence, but maybe it screwed with the oil flow enough to mess things up. That stuff is probably a bad idea regardless.

Tom

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post #184 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubi View Post
Most (all?) modern spin-on oil filters have a bypass valve. I know Wix, Napa, Purolator, Bosch, etc. do. There's basically a spring at one end of the can, where if the pressure drop across the media gets too high the media shifts in the can and opens up a bypass. No need to spend a ton of cash on an oil filter just for that feature.
No. Not all of them do. Quite a few don't. So do your research on the filters you get.

It was Wix Filters on the 2 boat engines that stopped up. When I talked to Wix I was shocked to find out they didn't have a bypass and they were the top of the line Wix filters for V-8 Chevy's. Expensive lesson learned.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #185 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 10:06 PM
But Mad North-Northwest
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I don't know about your boat engines, but the Wix automotive ones do. See below for example disassembly photos:

Engine Oil Filter Study

I've never seen a modern automotive canister oil filter without a bypass, myself. Even the POS Fram filters have them.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #186 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubi View Post
I don't know about your boat engines, but the Wix automotive ones do. See below for example disassembly photos:

Engine Oil Filter Study

I've never seen a modern automotive canister oil filter without a bypass, myself. Even the POS Fram filters have them.
All those filters are for one type of Ford engine. As the article stated. Filters are made for specific engines. Not all of them will have a bypass.

Doesn't matter if its for a car or a boat. An oil filter for a specific engine brand is going to be the same in either application.

Below is from Wix.

Some WIX full-flow filters include anti-drainback and/or filter by-pass valves. These types of filters are identical to full-flow filters, except that a by-pass valve replaces the inner element support and an anti-drainback valve has been added. The Anti-Drainback Valve prevents oil from draining out of the filter inlet holes when the engine is shut off. It also provides seal between clean and dirty oil at the upper end cap. This is necessary in applications where the oil filter is mounted in a horizontal or inverted position.

The Filter By-Pass Valve
If a WIX full-flow filter becomes "clogged", or excessively restrictive to oil flow, the filter by-pass valve ensures continued engine lubrication by allowing the oil to by-pass the filter. Some vehicle manufacturers have the by-pass valve built into the oil filter mounting unit (located on the engine).

Other vehicle manufacturers require full-flow filters have the by-pass valve built into the filter itself. All Wix oil filter types recommended for these particular applications include the by-pass valve assembly in the filter.


As I said in an earlier post. Do your research and make sure it has a bypass. Oil filters completely stopping up is rare. But it can happen.

Another chart I found about oil filters. All these filters fit the same type engine.
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1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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Last edited by Jim G; 10-20-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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post #187 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 11:12 PM
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Are you confusing bypass with anti-drain back? I've only heard of oil pressure by-pass as being a function of the filter housing, if it exists at all.

-Ah, we posted one minute apart, never mind.
I had a friend at an independent BMW shop that was on an oil change interval and filter Jihad, around 2005 or so. BMW had some recent models out with extended oil filter changes, as in 2year oil changes. He had a filter on his website from a BMW certified pre-owned vehicle that was brought in for some engine issues, and he cut the filter in half to show how bad an idea it was to go that many miles/years with out changing the oil filter. It was black jelly inside the filter, which was clearly a BMW filter. It took a lot of time to clear that engine of sludge, IIRC.

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74 TR6

Last edited by John533i; 10-20-2017 at 11:44 PM.
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post #188 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 11:57 PM
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Fair enough: don’t use the filter for a Chevy in your Alfa then, I guess. I assume there must be one in the filter mount on the engine for that car.

The Alfa cross-reference ones do have them, though. So unless someone got real creative i doubt that’s the problem here, but easy enough to look up the specs of the filter on the car.

Tom

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post #189 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakey View Post
Here's a view of the upper bearings, still in the block. The surface action seems comparable to the lower bearings.

Looks very clean.

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #190 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
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The bearings did have oil on them; I wiped them off with a rag to see the condition of the surface.

-Kevin
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post #191 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 05:16 AM
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It will be interesting to see how straight the crankshaft is. I cannot imagine how it would be bent enough to lock it up like that. I had the main journals ground on a Spider crank last year and the machinist found that it was .0015" out of alignment which he was able to correct when he ground them.

Ed Prytherch
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A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #192 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 05:40 AM
Try installing the crank alone (ie, no pistons, etc) and see if turns. If no, then I suppose it could only be a bent crank. If yes then I think it would point to an oil starvation issue. That said, those bearings don't look all that horrible as to seize the motor...
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post #193 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 09:06 AM
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What would cause a bent crank? I've seen a broken crank on a 67 camero after the manual transmission locked up.
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post #194 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 09:19 AM
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What do the rod bearings look like?
I doubt very much the crankshaft is bent. Nothing looks like it got hot. The trace we see on #2 and #4 is from some sort of debris. If the crank was bent we would see evidence on #3 bearing.
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post #195 of 572 (permalink) Old 10-21-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
If the crank was bent we would see evidence on #3 bearing.
True if the bend is in the middle. The Spec is +/- .0005" between journals. Mine was worse than that but not noticeable.

Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
76 Suzuki GT500
2011 Jaguar XKR

A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke

Last edited by alfaparticle; 10-21-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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