69 Duetto - Apple or Pine?? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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69 Duetto - Apple or Pine??

Hi all,
I recently joined the forum and it's been a great resource, thank you. I am thinking about picking up this 69 Duetto. I've been trying to determine the color, is it Apple or Pine, AR216 or AR 217? I did a search and there was a similar thread back in 2012 with mixed opinions. I;ve seen Alfa color materials and they have it both ways as well. Does anyone know for sure which color it is and the correct paint code? Also, it's been repainted at some point but does anyone know if this was an original 69 Duetto color? I've only been able to find two other Duettos searching Google that are in this color. But I see a lot in a lighter green color. My guess is this is Pine and the lighter green is Apple.
Thanks for your help!
Michael
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 07:44 AM
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Going out of my increasingly faulty memory (so someone will correct me if I'm wrong), but I was under the impression that Pino Verde was a Bertone color; this to me looks like Verde Inglese, a Pininfarina color (and the color my '71 wears, AR219 if I'm remembering correctly). They always looked damned near identical to me, but the bodies were made in two different factories with two different color ranges.
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[FONT="Century Gothic"][B]Bob Farace[/B]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]1971 Alfa Romeo 1750 Spider Veloce[/COLOR]
[I]Director, Connecticut branch, Scuderia Non Originale[/I][/FONT]
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Farace. After seeing your avatar and doing some more searching, I don't think it is Verde Inglese (AR 219) since Verde Inglese looks a touch brighter. I think it may be Verde Vivo (AR 217) but I think this may be a GTV6 color, not a Duetto color. I've seen lots of GTV6 in this color online but only two Duettos. Perhaps it was special ordered or repainted in Verde Vivo.
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 12:38 PM
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Green Spider colors are very tricky, because there are several shades that are very close (see extract from scanned 1971 color chart pages I received via e-mail many years pack).
The best way to figure out the original color (Verde Vivo P.F or Verde Pino) is to ask the archive via FCA Heritage.

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-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 01:10 PM
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69 was an odd color green on the Duetto's. Mine was originally green and had been change to white in the late 70's or early 80's. WhenI started redoing it I took some good pictures of the green color where I peeled of a big chunk of undercoating in the rear wheel well.

It should be the 217 color.

Also check the rear end inside the trunk for crash damage. As the car you pictured has a 67 or earlier trunk lid on it. The 69 had Alfa Romeo in block letters. The Alfa badge above the letters. All of this was just above the lip in the middle of the lid. The 69's also had iniezione at an angle on the right or left corner of the lid.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Tubut, thank you, this is very helpful. Each new bit of info is a piece of the puzzle and it looks like the pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

I've seen AR 217 on Alfa color charts listed as both verde vivo and verde farina (as shown on the color chart you posted). I realize colors vary according to the lighting and the monitor, but from everything I've seen, verde farina seems to be the best match. The car is a 1969 and the seller says its AR 217. Since 1969 is indicated under verde farina on the color chart you posted above, I'm betting that's it!!
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Jim, appreciate it. Again, your saying it's AR 217 would support it being verde farina. The original owner replaced the engine with a 2.0 with dual Webbers about 20-30 years ago. Maybe he switched out the badging since it was no longer fuel injected. The inside of the trunk looks all original, no signs of damage, but I will check again more closely. Thanks for the heads up.

Identifying these cars is difficult because so many cars listed as a 1969 have different badging, lenses, seats, etc. I guess a lot of them have been modified over the years. Even Alfa books I've looked at show them differently. It's hard to know what an original 69 should really look like.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 02:12 PM
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This is what the U.S. 69 trunk lid should look like. All emblems require holes through the metal to be installed.

The other thing that might have happened is the lip rusted out on the original trunk lid and was replaced with an earlier one. The lip is very prone to rusting out.

Picture is from the series 1 picture thread.
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1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 02:23 PM
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The 1600 Duetto trunk lid on the car makes me suspicious of a rear end collision or, some serious rust issues. Please inspect that car thoroughly or take it to a competent Alfa person for a PPI
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia View Post
The 1600 Duetto trunk lid on the car makes me suspicious of a rear end collision or, some serious rust issues. Please inspect that car thoroughly or take it to a competent Alfa person for a PPI
I'll definitely ask about the trunk lid.

My mechanic currently owns it and would continue to service it if I buy it. He owns one of the premier European shops specializing in Porsche, Ferrari, Lambos, Jags and of course Alfas. He bought this from a customer not long ago and knew I'd be interested. He's not a dealer or a flipper so the fact he bought this one tells me something. He's been servicing it for the past five years. He's sorting out the entire car, including a top end rebuild, and said he would offer it to me first once the car is ready, I won't know the price until he's done. He knows how picky I am and said the car is a solid driver. I think it will come down to the asking price, which is probably going to be a bit more than I am prepared to spend. But you never know. I used to own a 1990 Spider (red with black interior and red piping on the seats) which was absolutely beautiful and in perfect condition. Selling it was a REALLY stupid move.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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I'll definitely ask about the trunk lid.

My mechanic currently owns it and would continue to service it if I buy it. He owns one of the premier European shops specializing in Porsche, Ferrari, Lambos, Jags and of course Alfas. He bought this from a customer not long ago and knew I'd be interested. He's not a dealer or a flipper so the fact he bought this one tells me it's probably a pretty solid car. He's been servicing it for the past five years. Before that it sat for 20 years. He's sorting out the entire car, including a top end rebuild, and said he would offer it to me first once the car is ready, I won't know the price until he's done. He knows me really well and said the car is a solid driver. I think it will come down to the asking price, which is probably going to be a bit more than I am prepared to spend. And also if I'm really ready to go down the rabbit hole of owning a nearly 50 year old Alfa. I used to own a 1990 Spider (red with black interior and red piping on the seats) which was absolutely beautiful and in perfect condition. Selling it was a REALLY stupid move.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukerdog View Post
I'll definitely ask about the trunk lid.

My mechanic currently owns it and would continue to service it if I buy it. He owns one of the premier European shops specializing in Porsche, Ferrari, Lambos, Jags and of course Alfas. He bought this from a customer not long ago and knew I'd be interested. He's not a dealer or a flipper so the fact he bought this one tells me it's probably a pretty solid car. He's been servicing it for the past five years. Before that it sat for 20 years. He's sorting out the entire car, including a top end rebuild, and said he would offer it to me first once the car is ready, I won't know the price until he's done. He knows me really well and said the car is a solid driver. I think it will come down to the asking price, which is probably going to be a bit more than I am prepared to spend. And also if I'm really ready to go down the rabbit hole of owning a nearly 50 year old Alfa. I used to own a 1990 Spider (red with black interior and red piping on the seats) which was absolutely beautiful and in perfect condition. Selling it was a REALLY stupid move.
Who is the mechanic? I sold a bunch of Alfa special tools to a owner of a Lamborghini shop in Texas. I wonder if this is the same guy.

You can PM me his name if you don't want to post it publicly.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 05:28 PM
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If you email Alfa Heritage dept. in Italy and give them the VIN number they will write back to give you the origional build date, paint code and interior colour. They usually respond quickly and are very helpful.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukerdog View Post
I'll definitely ask about the trunk lid.

My mechanic currently owns it and would continue to service it if I buy it. He owns one of the premier European shops specializing in Porsche, Ferrari, Lambos, Jags and of course Alfas. He bought this from a customer not long ago and knew I'd be interested. He's not a dealer or a flipper so the fact he bought this one tells me it's probably a pretty solid car. He's been servicing it for the past five years. Before that it sat for 20 years. He's sorting out the entire car, including a top end rebuild, and said he would offer it to me first once the car is ready, I won't know the price until he's done. He knows me really well and said the car is a solid driver. I think it will come down to the asking price, which is probably going to be a bit more than I am prepared to spend. And also if I'm really ready to go down the rabbit hole of owning a nearly 50 year old Alfa. I used to own a 1990 Spider (red with black interior and red piping on the seats) which was absolutely beautiful and in perfect condition. Selling it was a REALLY stupid move.
The 69 is a much better car and a lot more fun to drive.

Solid driver does not mean it's rust free. As you know, rust is expensive to fix as is poorly repaired crash damage.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-27-2017, 07:31 PM
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...The 69 is a much better car and a lot more fun to drive...
Hmm, I would say different character cars. I think Alfa made serious improvements ( bigger motor, better brakes, more interior features) but I've found that the 1600 is endearing in it's own way. Actually I would argue that the '74 Kamm Tail is the zenith of the breed.


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...Solid driver does not mean it's rust free. As you know, rust is expensive to fix as is poorly repaired crash damage.
Boy that's an understatement! Round tails in particular seem to be victims of unsafe repairs...
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