S4: Wheel Spacers and Max Wheel Size - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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S4: Wheel Spacers and Max Wheel Size

Hi everyone,

I wondered if you know what the maximum tire/wheel spacer combination is on the Spider. I am running 195/60/R15 tires and 22mm wheel spacers in the back. When driving with a full tank of gas and two people, I think I get some rubbing when going over bumps, but I am not 100% sure. Definitely just happens on the right side of the car.

Now I don't have the original bolts and I have read about the possibility of some tires rubbing on the inside of the wheel well wich is why I thought I'd ask before buying bolts and taking out the spacers.

I also have slightly shorter springs (will need to check the exact size, though).

Thanks,
goulet115
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 09:22 AM
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I think I get some rubbing when going over bumps, but I am not 100% sure.
look at your tires, wheels and wheel wells for signs of rubbage. once you know where is rubbing, can work on a fix.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 09:33 AM
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What wheels do you have on the car? I'm assuming they are not the OEM 14" five spoke or OEM 15" phonedials.
If you do have either of these, you should not have spacers in there.
Any spacers in the front? Also if OEM, there shouldn't be any.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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What wheels do you have on the car? I'm assuming they are not the OEM 14" five spoke or OEM 15" phonedials.
If you do have either of these, you should not have spacers in there.
Any spacers in the front? Also if OEM, there shouldn't be any.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 01:42 PM
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If you run anything less than 180 inch/ pounds on the rear with your 195 tires they well rub on the inner fender,I run 205/50/16, org I used 150 pound springs on the rear and rubbed,now I run 200 pounds on the rear and 1150 on the front ,no rub,nice ride

anyone can buy a Porsche, only Drivers drive a Alfa Romeo
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 02:11 PM
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those look like AZEV alloys.

195/60-15 tyres on original 6Jx15 phonedial alloy with an offset (ET) of 30 would be what the german spider had.

if your wheels are AZEV 7J x 15, they'd have an offset of 25.

tried just removing the spacers?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 02:18 PM
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I don't think your tires should be anywhere near rubbing, which means you do not need spacers that thick back there. You just need to figure out why they are there. Could it be that's all that could be found, or to compensate for studs that are too long and prevent the center cap from being installed, etc.

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Last edited by mcola; 02-09-2017 at 07:02 PM.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 02:25 PM
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I'd start by pulling off one of the wheels and checking to see what the width is and what the offset is. Hopefully all of this is stamped or embossed on the backside of the wheel, or if you are lucky visible as soon as you pull off the center cap.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, this took a while as I had to order in the key for the center cap..

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Originally Posted by bianchi1 View Post
If you run anything less than 180 inch/ pounds on the rear with your 195 tires they well rub on the inner fender,I run 205/50/16, org I used 150 pound springs on the rear and rubbed,now I run 200 pounds on the rear and 1150 on the front ,no rub,nice ride
I run Delta 6100HA on the back. They have a strength of 11.75 mm, an outer circumference of 118 mm and a length of 433 mm. Winding number is 11.75. I don't know how strong they are, perhaps someone can help me interpret those stats?

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Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
those look like AZEV alloys.

195/60-15 tyres on original 6Jx15 phonedial alloy with an offset (ET) of 30 would be what the german spider had.

if your wheels are AZEV 7J x 15, they'd have an offset of 25.

tried just removing the spacers?
You were right, those are AZEV Classico wheels. However, they are 7J x 15H2 with an offset of 35 (!). It also says 108/4 on them. I can't test the wheels without spacers right now as I don't have the original bolts.

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Originally Posted by mcola View Post
I'd start by pulling off one of the wheels and checking to see what the width is and what the offset is. Hopefully all of this is stamped or embossed on the backside of the wheel, or if you are lucky visible as soon as you pull off the center cap.
Offset is 35, another number is 108/4, and they are 7Jx15H2 wheels and 22mm wheel spacers.


Now, can anyone make sense of it and spot the error?

Last edited by goulet115; 02-21-2017 at 03:09 PM.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 03:05 PM
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Ok,
7Jx15H2 means 15" diameter and 7" wide.
108/4 is the bolt pattern 4x108.
The offset is 35.

The phone dials are
6x15
The offset it 30.

The biggest difference between these wheels are your AZEV are 1" wider than stock.
The offset is only 5mm more which means the wheel sits further into the wheel well by 5mm.
I think you may not need the spacers. But if you do, you may only need much thinner ones.
Take one of the spacers off and try and remount the wheel without the spacer.
If the wheel rubs against the inside well (trunk side), then use some washers to start spacing the wheel out enough so not to rub.
Then its a matter of getting spacers that are only as thick as the washers.
AngloSpider likes this.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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I just checked my notes from when I went through all this on my car.
Turns out without spacers, your wheels will sit 0.700" (basically 3/4") further inboard.
Chances are they rub. So perhaps you do need spacers, but I'm guessing only about 10mm not 22mm.
With those 22mm spacers, the entire extra 1" wheels are sitting outboard, hence your rubbing the fender.

I think the problem you will find are spacers are only made so thick. Then you have to go to adapters and adapters start too thick for your needs.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcola View Post
I just checked my notes from when I went through all this on my car.
Turns out without spacers, your wheels will sit 0.700" (basically 3/4") further inboard.
Chances are they rub. So perhaps you do need spacers, but I'm guessing only about 10mm not 22mm.
With those 22mm spacers, the entire extra 1" wheels are sitting outboard, hence your rubbing the fender.
22mm = 0.87", right? That is what they would sit further inward by without the spacers.
Now from the slight rub marks on the fender, I am thinking that around 12mm further inward would do the trick.

Will 10mm spacers be enough to keep them from rubbing on the inner wheel well? Can this even be answered in theory or will I need to try?

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I think the problem you will find are spacers are only made so thick. Then you have to go to adapters and adapters start too thick for your needs.
I think they are readily available, how about these or these?
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 06:02 AM
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I think 10-12mm spacers is probably all you need, as I’m starting to recall when I was considering different wheel sizes, that most of the 7” wheels getting put on Spiders had offsets of 20mm. So if you have 35mm offset, the closer you can get that to 20mm (with spacers) the closer you are getting to something that will work.
But I should add there is something more to this, and that is wheel stud length. As you space the wheels out more, you increasingly lose wheel stud length.
So you as you space the wheels out, you need to make sure you respect minimum thread engagement requires, which I think is roughly 7-8 full turns.

You really should experiment with some washers to space out the wheels to both ensure no rubbing on the inside or outside as well as ensuring you are maintaining good thread engagement.

Can you confirm that you have adapters and not spacers. To be clear, spacers are what you see in the link you provided. Adapters are much thicker and come with 4 through holes and 4 studs. You bolt the spacers to your hub and then your wheel to the spacer.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcola View Post
I think 10-12mm spacers is probably all you need, as I’m starting to recall when I was considering different wheel sizes, that most of the 7” wheels getting put on Spiders had offsets of 20mm. So if you have 35mm offset, the closer you can get that to 20mm (with spacers) the closer you are getting to something that will work.
You are saying that, in theory, 15mm spacers are ideal as they result in an offset of 20mm, but there is a chance that 10mm spacers and a resulting offset of 25mm will be enough not to rub on the inside well. If I just took off the spacers, 35 will most certainly be rubbing on the inside. Correct? In that case, I will take the risk and give it a try with 10mm spacers now, hoping that the 12mm I'll be losing on the outside will be enough to clear the tire from the fender while not being too much to make it contact the inside.

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But I should add there is something more to this, and that is wheel stud length. As you space the wheels out ore, you increasingly lose wheel stud length.
So you as you space the wheels out, you need to make sure you respect minimum thread engagement requires, which I think is roughly 7-8 full turns.
I'll just buy the studs in a kit with the wheel spacers to avoid that issue alltogether. I don't want to try with washers, first of all I would need to buy those first and secondly, I don't want to drive the car with washers as an interim solution. Turning the wheel while jacked up isn't good enough to test because I can't account for bumps that way.

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Originally Posted by mcola View Post
Can you confirm that you have adapters and not spacers. To be clear, spacers are what you see in the link you provided. Adapters are much thicker and come with 4 through holes and 4 studs. You bolt the spacers to your hub and then your wheel to the spacer.
You are right, I have adapters. Does that change anything?

Update: I just spoke to Alfaholics and they suggested "The offset we recommend for the Spider on 7x15 is ET29 so for your ET35 wheels a 5mm spacer will be about right." They don't expect any rubbing without the spacers, either. I'll follow their recommendations and will update you on the outcome!

Last edited by goulet115; 02-24-2017 at 06:26 AM.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:29 PM
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I should have been more clear... experimenting with the washers is just to test fit the wheels on the car while on a jack stand. I was not suggesting driving the car.

Correct, you may be able to get away with 10mm, and 15mm would give you even more clearance. But like I said the thicker you go you get into stud length issues. So I'd try to go with the thinnest in hopes of still maintaining minimum thread engagement requirements.

Regarding bumps, assuming the wheel is properly spaced and you don't have sagging springs/shocks, you should be fine.

Regarding adapters, I just wanted to confirm my suspicion was correct.

As for Alfaholics, they suspect you can get away with no spacers? If so try removing them and you'll know right away. If the inside of the wheel doesn't rub inboard you are fine.

Mike

'87 Quadrifoglio
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