S4: An uncommon starting issue - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 04:45 AM
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here are some simple first test values for the AFM from my euro spider S4 if it helps
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/6392681-post13.html

the O sensor wires (up beside the brake booster): the 2 wire connection is the 12v heater circuit, the single connector (burnt orange colour) is the signal...some tests here.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/200121-post3.html

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 10:39 AM
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I was wondering if you have any recourse to get your money back since they didn't resolve the problem? You did the right thing coming to the BB and ask for help. My apology for coming off strong in my post, but I just went through my 91 spider that was totally screwed up. Spiderserie4 helped me sort out some of the issues. I just wanted to put some ideas out there of things to check. This is what we call a closed loop system. Everything has to be in order for it to run properly as it is all governed by air mixture, air flow, and resistances. The computer measures all of this and tells the injectors how long to fire. I would start by just doing some of the simple tests if you have an ohm meter. The tests will measure resistances to see if they are in the acceptable range. If the plugs are black, it is rich. I would check the AFM, and the Lambda sensor for starters if all the air checks are with out leaks. The in manifold temp sensor (blue plug) in the middle needs to be measured as well as it checks the water temperature. As I mentioned this goes bad and throws the whole system off.

As this is a starting issue, I would suspect fuel flow. Fuel pump in the tank, fuel filter plugged, fuel pressure regulator is leaking. My regulator was full of fuel. It made a great basketball shot into the trash bin.

Is there a plug that a diagnostic tool could be plugged into?

Christopher

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Last edited by velocedoc; 09-28-2016 at 10:42 AM.
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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After weeks of rain and little home-time, I am coming back to the repair now!

Two more updates before I attempt the series of tests: The car has trouble to keep a steady rpm, even with the foot on the gas (trying to keep a steady RPM and speed). It feels like someone repeatedly steps on the paddle.

I found two leaks: The hose pictured below has a leak, but I can't figure out the part number, nor what little cylindrically shaped thing it connects to. Does anyone know?



Also, the hose that connects to the coolant reservoir at the uppermost opening is not airtight. Does it have to be?
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 05:41 AM
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Dom (SpiderSeries4) has just been diagnosing someone else's similar problems here.

The issue appears to have been resolved after finding a split in that same hose, I think.

Doms words:
Quote:
Hey Jimmy if you mean the hose coming off the top of that little gold coloured metal canister, that's a good find!
That is the vacuum from the plenum (follow the hose and it will plug into a nipple on the plenum, no. 16 in diagram (well, it should do!) controlling the fuel pressure regulator (FPR)....now that hose maybe opening once in a while, sometimes less, sometimes more, will give all sorts of fuel pressure and uneven running problems.

Spider S4 1990 manual red LHD
Spider 916 V6 2002 Silver
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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@AngloSpider and SpiderSeries4, this is exciting!

The linked thread says I need some generic vacuum hose (as this one is not sold specifically)?

Since my hose is leaking fuel from that split, I need a new FPR, as well? Any tip on where to best buy that from?
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 08:06 AM
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Hoo boy. Yeah, if there's fuel in that vacuum hose your FPR is shot.

Tom

1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 08:36 AM
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Hi Goulet,
FPR: you want the one that look like in the photo, push on type.
alfricambi in germany does one (expensive)
Benzindruckregler Alfa Spider 115 2,0 i.e. Bj.90-93, 119,00 -

cheaper might be to search the part number:
Bosch 0 280 160 758 (or 0280160758 depending how people write it, the former is the correct way)
I am pretty sure Bosch 0280160235 works as well, I have this on another S4 plenum that I have spare, and it looks original (the number corresponds to alfa 164)
or,
Alfa 60611308
The vacuum hose is O.D 8/9mm / I.D. 5mm - 20cms long (buy a meter, always useful!)
as you are in Germany this outta do it:
Unterdruckschlauch Silikonschlauch Unterdruck Schlauch LPG Turbo schwarz 5mm | eBay

Oh and thanks for the PM: sehr gerne!
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 05:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
Bosch 0 280 160 758 (or 0280160758 depending how people write it, the former is the correct way)
I am pretty sure Bosch 0280160235 works as well, I have this on another S4 plenum that I have spare, and it looks original (the number corresponds to alfa 164)
Very interesting. I just checked the part number of the one that is in my Spider and it says 0 280 160 263. A little research suggests that one puts out 3.5 Bar. Perhaps that is why the trouble started in the first place?

Anyway, the 0 280 160 758 seems hard to get hold of, so I will order this 0 280 160 235 now.


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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2016, 07:03 AM
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the bosch 263 is from the old L-Jetronic Porsche 944 range, actually has 3,8 bar according to Bosch.

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 11:45 AM
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any news?
car running again?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
any news?
car running again?
Must be busy working on the car. He hasn't visited the BB in two months.

Ciao tutti

93 Spider (red)
87 Milano (not red)
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Working on my winter car at the moment

The Spider hasn't been out for a while, but I did carry out this repair. First time, I soaked the garage floor in fuel. Second time, it was running smoothly and has done so for at least a handful of drives before I put a cover on it.

I did not notice the starting/stalling issue again, but since I have only driven it a couple of times, I did not quite cross it off the list yet. The idle and acceleration is still rough. What certainly hasn't improved is my thick fuel mixture but don't really know where to start here...

I will look into my notes and let you know what my next steps are! And I still want to visit you, spiderserie4
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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Update: After driving the car numerous times, I have to say that the situation has improved dramatically. I still don't get an instant start (1-2 seconds are needed), but it does not take 3-4 seconds anymore. Furthermore, the car has never stalled on me again and I have not had a fuel stench ever since.

After cold starts, I still get a rough acceleration every once in a while, but that's about it at the moment. It will undergo an exhaust test soon to see whether the rough mixture has improved.

All thanks to you guys
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