Clutch problems - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-20-2007, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Clutch problems

Hi, I'm currently trying to sell my '92 Spider, which is forcing me to face a couple problems I've been ignoring.

A few years ago I had a problem where the hydraulic fluid would leak out of the clutch cylinder if the car sat for too long. I rebuilt the cylinder and the leaking stopped, but I imagine the leak caused some wear on the clutch.

The first problem is a slipping, squealing noise while letting the pedal out if I accelerate too hard in first gear. There's no noticeable performance issue, just a loud noise.

The second is that the car grinds when I shift into second gear at too high an rpm. As far as I know, this is an issue with most spiders. I've managed to minimize it by double-clutching and watching my rpms, but dude test-driving it was all slapstick and made horrible sounds when he was shifting. He's convinced it's a $2000 problem.

Does anyone know anything about the squealing noise? And should I do anything about the grinding, or just tell potential buyers to suck it up and teach them to shift? Is it worth it to remove the gearbox and inspect the clutch and synchros? Because that sounds like it would be no fun at all.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-20-2007, 05:02 PM
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I would do gearbox and clutch at same time you looking total repairs around 1500-1800 .But if you try to sell this way the car you probally will lose around 4000 from sale price . those things scare people its from personal expirience.

Thx

1969 1750 roundtail serial 105.62.14800001
ex 1992 spider can't afford 2 ex 1986 alfa33s
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-22-2007, 10:02 PM
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Ciao Foglia

Heel and toe on the down shift will solve the problem. It takes some practice but it's very cool once you get the hang of it.

Adriatico -91 spider- 74 GTV
2008 G35x
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 12:11 AM
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clutch woes

I have had problems with 2nd like many others before me. Using a fully synthetic gear oil will help it a great deal when its cold , but is debatable after it ha warmed up. You might want to hunt down some Shell Spirax gear oil and do a complete oil change. this would be a good starting point before removing and rebuilding the tranny. any improvement is a step in the right direction. good luck. I am having a bigger problem with a clients late 80's spider , she lost the ability to disengage the clutch so I ordered rebuild kits for both master and slave. After honing, refitting, and bleeding still not disengaging. I removed slave again and upon inspection noticed that the arm that pushes the throwout seems to have more play than usual. has anyone had any experiences with the pressure plate actually breaking or similar items breaking or bending so that it cannot fully disengage? It seems like the metal arm is traveling enougth to push pressure plate. I was not driving the car so I cant know whether it was all of a sudden or it gradually worsened. never had this kind of failure before, hope that I did'nt miss diagnose the problem. Aside from a slight chirping of the throwout bearing, no unusual noise from that area. figure the throwout is dry as it "chirps" a little when clutch is depressed. my concern is that the arm does not travel back all the way suggesting something is wrong with the pressure plate, as I can push it back by hand which also pushes the rod into the slave cylinder almost an inch. A first for me. Any insight greatly appreciated, thanks.

67 duetto, 74 spider, 83 gtv6, audi 90
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 03:55 AM
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Could be the clutch master cylinder actuating rod isn't set to the proper length.

The slave cylinder does not retract all the way when the throwout fork pushes back on it. In fact if you force it all the way back, it'll sort of block it's own internal ports forcing a double pump of the clutch every time to get the piston forward enough to activate the throwout. (as in being able to push it back in is normal. There should also not be a spring on the cylinder end of the fork as it'll cause stuff like that to happen)

It's unlikely the pressure plate springs have gone so far bad that it would make shifting difficult. If anything, they'd make it easier to de-clutch and would produce less pressure once the clutch was re-engaged. (more likely to get slippange under load than grindage when changing)

Now, as I just had happen on mine Monday, the actual fingers on the throwout fork apparently can bend.

Not sure how, not sure why, all I know is that I've got one bent almost 90 degrees and I'll have to drop the trans to swap it out.

One quick 'pop' noise while shifting, and that was the end of it. Working great up til that very moment in time. Net result was a soft pedal up high and a very hard pedal down low, complete with crunches going into gear and every indication that the softline had barfed, which it had, after the fork bent. (and it most graciously simultaniously allowed the slave cylinder to displace it's piston too making for a really sexy fluid leak while it was at it)


Good thing it happened while I was doing some finalization settings on the EFI, or I might have had to actually enjoyed driving it for a while without having to tinker with some part or another.......




Darren
'84 manufacture ~ '85 MY Spider Graduate

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foglia green View Post
... Does anyone know anything about the squealing noise? And should I do anything about the grinding, or just tell potential buyers to suck it up and teach them to shift? Is it worth it to remove the gearbox and inspect the clutch and synchros? Because that sounds like it would be no fun at all.
No matter how poorly or how well any driver shifts through the gears, it does not change the condition of the car. When new, these Spiders shifted very well, and yes, people who don't shift well will wear out parts quickly. However, this doesn't change the need to service or replace parts, and it is expensive to recondition a Spider with deferred maintenance... If you want to sell the car "as is", you will probably face buyers who are skeptical about how well the car has been maintained, and this will probably be reflected in the offers you get. Is the car is very nice shape, other than what you mentioned?

Best regards,

Enrique
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-23-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foglia green View Post
He's convinced it's a $2000 problem.
It could be just a $20 problem! Is the clutch rubber hose still original or old? If yes, then I would guess that the internal of that hose has likely swelled or collapsed and thus restricting fluid flow. Do you have a heavy/hard pedal (when pressing) and a somewhat slow returning pedal? If so, the failing rubber hose (slow flowing fluid) makes the clutch hard to control and might cause the grinding (not enough clutch release before shifting in gear) and squealing (mismatch rpm due to delayed return) when the clutch engages.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-24-2007, 07:35 PM
 
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Does the clutch pedal return to the same height as the brake? If it does'nt try pushing the clutch pedal all the way down an pulling the clutch pedal all the way up with your hand so it reaches the height of the brake. Do this about 10 times, full down, pull back up.

I pull my slave cylinder off every 5 years to drain out the gunk laying around from the cold winters. When I reinstall everything it seems the clutch pedal never comes back to full height. It doesn't shift well this way since there is little pedal travel . . When I "prime it" with this procedure then I am good until the next 5 years.
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