is it normal to have hub loose against rotor? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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is it normal to have hub loose against rotor?

Put on new rotor, slid hub on spindle and tightened castle nut per spec. Then backed it out a tad to first castle notch for cotter
Pin. But rotor is still loose. Is this normal? I know once wheel is on and lug nuts tightened rotor should snug up, but just wanted to make sure disc is ok to be loose.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 03:55 PM
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No. The spindle nut only secures the hub to the spindle. There are 2 screws that hold the rotor to the hub until the wheel is installed & the lug nuts tightened. Those screws may not be strong enough to pull the rotor tightly onto the hub.

Try putting the wheel on, tighten the lug nuts then remove the wheel and tighten up the screws.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ghnl View Post
There are 2 screws that hold the rotor to the hub...
The first question we should ask: Do you have those screws? Because without them, yes, the rotor will be loose on the hub.

These are the screws labeled "1" on the diagram that ghnl posted above. They are slotted head and about 5mm in diameter.

If you don't have those four screws (2 per side) it isn't the end of the world. The lugnuts will hold the rotor in place. Replacement screws should be available at a hardware store - they're just flathead, metric screws. Maybe someone can post the diameter, pitch and length.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 05:42 PM
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Sometimes you get lucky and one of the holes lines up well with the castellated nut but other times it can only set up the hub too loose or too tight. You can make shims from thin shim stock to go behind the castellated nut if this is your problem

Ed Prytherch
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, you guys set me straight!! Thanks, Eric, Ed, and Jay!! Right, geez, I almost forgot about the two screws!! Yes, I do have them. I will screw them in first, then complete with wheels. What would I do without the buddies here.........
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Sometimes you get lucky and one of the holes lines up well with the castellated nut but other times it can only set up the hub too loose or too tight. You can make shims from thin shim stock to go behind the castellated nut if this is your problem
Manual says to back out the castle nut 90 degrees or a quarter turn, to first notch. This is after torquing to spec. Agree, people?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Papa Sr View Post
Manual says to back out the castle nut 90 degrees or a quarter turn, to first notch. This is after torquing to spec. Agree, people?
Yes.

As explained above, if you followed the procedure your hub is probably attached to the spindle fine, it's just the disc that's loose on the hub. You can fix that by either putting in the flathead screws, or bolting on the wheel.

The screws are just there to hold the disc to the hub during assembly/disassembly. Once the wheel is on the wheel lugs hold everything together and the screws don't do anything.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Papa Sr View Post
I will screw them in first, then complete with wheels. What would I do without the buddies here.........
coat those screws with anti-seize. Don't even bother installing them if you are not going to use it! Having had to drill out one of these lovely vintage flat head screws, I know how painful it can be.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 05:34 AM
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Manual says to back out the castle nut 90 degrees or a quarter turn, to first notch. This is after torquing to spec. Agree, people?
No. Automobile design teams are multi-disciplinary. This solution makes the accountants smile and the engineers cringe. Taper roller bearings should have .001" to .007" end play. !/4 turn of the nut is .015". As a mechanic you can be like the accountant and say it is acceptable or you can be like the engineer and take a step in the direction of perfection.
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/solution...gs_English.pdf

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle View Post
Taper roller bearings should have .001" to .007" end play. 1/4 turn of the nut is .012".
Well, which is it? From your link to Timken's instructions:
Quote:
To adjust the setting of this bearing:
Step 1: Tighten the nut while turning the hub. When there is
a slight bind on the bearing, the parts are seated correctly.
Step 2: Back the nut off 1/6 to 1/4 of a turn or sufficiently to
allow .001 to .007 end play.
I suppose the "or" allows a lot of leeway?

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 07:01 AM
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I suppose the "or" allows a lot of leeway?
sadly Alfa's adjustment method is insufficiently precise to meet Timken's specification. If the thread was 1.00mm instead of 1.5mm and if there were three holes instead of two, then it would just meet spec.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 07:14 AM
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alternative solution

One of my racer friends uses these. Tighten it until there is barely perceptible end float then stake it. I prefer the shim method.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I don't have shims and stuff, so will be happy doing it the way manual says. Car made it ok for 28 years with no race damage so far. I will set it for just a tad of play for the washer, as book says.

That old cotter pin seems too big though, I heard never use an old one so will buy new of course, but debating if I should get slightly smaller one. Had such a bad time sliding out the old one, not sure if it is normal. A new one will be very straight, so should solve my woes.

Big thanks, people.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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Cotter pin will not go through the hole, it's super tight and binding, yet castle nut is tight. I tried removing some grease thinking I packed too much and retightened the castle nut but still the cotter pin will not go through.

Should I keep removing grease behind the bearing? Caliper is loose. What could it be?

Thanks!
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-24-2015, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Figured it out, the inner rubber seal on the hub has a circular spring that's all mangled and getting in the way of the hub seating right. What's the worst that could happen if I remove the mangled spring and put it back together without that spring? The rubber seal has no tears in it...
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