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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-07-2010, 07:45 PM
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And you get greasy working with wiring how?

OK, mabe around the starter or if the alternator is grubby, but otherwise methinks you might wanna organize your project schedual a bit differently

On a sorta not related but electrical relevant note:
Anyone have a clue how to recalibrate an Autometer voltage meter?
I thought my charging system was going wonky over the past few days, but it turns out the gauge has started reading about 1 1/2~1 3/4 volts lower than actual charging system output.




Darren
'84 manufacture ~ '85 MY Spider Graduate

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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
Is this the spec we seek?

Flow at inlet end of rail with zero pressure applied: 1.5~2 liters per minute / .33~.44 gallons per minute

Or is that 'zero pressure' anticipated flow w/zero manifold pressure at/on the regulator?
(implying the regulator has an inherant bleed by regardless)
This is the fuel pump volume (flow rate, quantity, etc) spec with the hose disconnected (zero pressure) from the fuel rail. There is no pressure without resistance.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 07:20 AM
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Yeah, that would make a great deal more sense wouldn't it.

I'm still digging around for some numbers/specs.




Darren
'84 manufacture ~ '85 MY Spider Graduate

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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To Papajam

I was told on another thread that you had access to electrical schematics for Spiders that included wire colors. It would be of great assistance in t-shooting my 86 Veloce.

thx
Warren
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 09:30 AM
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You were told correctly.

Please send me you email in a private message and I'll send you the diagrams.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Excuse my ignorance but exactly how do I do this sir.
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Actually it was pretty easy to do. I have sent email.

thx again
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 10:35 AM
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When you get that email prepare to be amazed!

BTW, PapaJam does not charge anything for all the work he's done with those wire diagrams. If I may offer a suggestion; becoming a subscriber will toss a few bucks towards keeping the AlfaBB alive (note: the money doesn't go to PapaJam).

Link to subscription info

- - Eric
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~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-08-2010, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Question for gnhl

In your post you say that, when the key is in start position, it bypasses the drive relay and starts pumps. Are you sure about this? The pumps get their power through larger gauge wires due to amperage draw of pumps. I can only see the start input energizing the drive relay's coil thus closing contacts and energizing pumps.
Therefore I would expect two wires landing on the same relay termination point (one side of relay coil) as the "coil" input so that either or both the "start" input or the "coil" input energizes the drive relay coil.
The only way for your explanation to work would be to have yet another independent relay.

btw - I got the colored schematics from Papajam. They are great. I'm taking the pic files to the copy store to have them reproduce them at a much larger than 8 1/2 x 11 size as I need both my reading glasses AND a magnifying glass to read it (sigh!).

thx
Warren

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trojwl View Post
In your post you say that, when the key is in start position, it bypasses the drive relay and starts pumps. Are you sure about this?
Yes. words words words

- - Eric
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- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
On a sorta not related but electrical relevant note:
Anyone have a clue how to recalibrate an Autometer voltage meter?
Have you tried changing the battery in the meter? A failing one in mine gave me dodgy readings.

Spider S4 1990 manual red LHD
Spider 916 V6 2002 Silver
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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngloSpider View Post
Have you tried changing the battery in the meter?
I assumed he was asking about a dash gauge voltmeter, not a portable Volt-Ohm Meter.

- - Eric
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~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
Mebane, North Carolina


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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trojwl View Post
...when the key is in start position, it bypasses the drive relay and starts pumps.
Technically (or is it electrically) speaking, it is the engine running relay trigger that is bypassed. This is the pulsing signal from ignition coil negative to relay terminal 31b. During cranking, the relay contacts close via a non-pulsing start signal on terminal 50. These two circuits must isolated be from each other to prevent one circuit from interfering with the other. Whether this is done with diodes or a second relay coil or something I don't know. Suppose I could take one apart and find out.

Are you suspecting no fuel pump voltage during crank?

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 05:43 AM
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Have a look at this thread: no fuel pressure

- - Eric
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~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Smile Gentlemen

Responses are cretainly appreciated however it appears the discussion has been sidetracked off the original issue.

Let me preface by stating I have 31 years experience in the instrumentation and controls field with a major electrical generating utility so I absolutely know my way around metering devices, electronics, relays (you would not believe the variety), control theory, etc. Trust me - I have probably seen it all at one time or another.

For example you have a $30 oxygen probe for your car. We have stack O2 probes (also zirconium cells but many times more complex)) that cost over $8000 per probe and $150,000 for the complete measuring system. You need this to accurately measure down to the .01 percent accuracy required for efficient operation of the large boilers.

Secondly my question was merely how is power to the pumps routed when in the "starting" phase. I see only one route - through the normally open contacts on the drive relay. So far the only way I see to seemingly "bypass" the drive relay function is to indeed have both "start" and "engine running" inputs land on the same relay terminal (one side of relay coil) so that either will energize the relay coil, and close the NO contacts. Yes this would require some sort of diode setup.

With all due respect, I don't see how your theory of bypassing the relay and energizing pumps is possible any other way short of an additional relay.

Please do not take this as any form of disrespect. I am learning more about this car everyday and the info I get in these forums is indeed invaluable.
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