1983 Spider Fuel Pump in Gas Tank? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4
1983 Spider Fuel Pump in Gas Tank?

Previous owner had a gerry rigged electrical connection to fuel pump in fuel tank, i have disconnected and car runs without it. What problems if any am i going to have?
Patzfan4eva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 09:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kansas City, Misery
Posts: 124
The primary pump under the car is not powerful enough to pull fuel out of the tank once the level drops. Expect to get only about 90 miles before running out of gas. Do that too often, and you can damage the primary pump from overheating.

PO may have jerry-rigged wiring due to a short in the original wires. Pull the carpet and look closely at the original wires, especially where they go through the floor of the trunk. The edge of the hole can easily wear through the wires.
Bodean is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Registered User
 
vf31rhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,042
Bodean is correct. The weaker in-tank pump was added by Alfa to overcome a vapor lock problem which developed when they went to electronic fuel injection. Usually, if the in-tank pump stops working, when you get down to about 1/2 tank of fuel, the engine starts to lose power and sputter. Fill up the tank and it runs OK. But Bodean is correct about damaging the primary pump under the car on the pasenger's side, if the in-tank pump is taken out of the system.

Good Luck, Robert
1988 Black Spider Veloce
vf31rhill is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 11:20 AM
Trained (ex)Professional

1953-2018 RIP

Platinum SubscriberAdministrator
 
papajam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 16,232
As previously mentioned, you may experience drive-ability problems without the in-tank pump because of fuel starvation (not vapor lock). And the main fuel pump may suffer as a result because of insufficient cooling.
How exactly was the in-tank pump wired? Would you like a color wiring diagram for your Spider?

A bit of history on the in-tank pump. Fuel starvation first appeared back in 1977 (mechanical fuel injection then) when Alfa switched from a bottom discharge fuel tank to a top discharge fuel tank. A factory recall was issued in (about) 1979 to retrofit in-tank fuel pumps to all Spiders while Alfa fitted in-tank pumps to all subsequent Spiders at the factory (to include the Bosch EFI cars starting in 1982). And to top it off, there was a recall on the recall to repair the pump mounting bracket.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
papajam is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4
Thanks for the advice and quick response! This board looks like it will be a great source of help with my new project!
Patzfan4eva is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 12:32 PM
1966-2013
Platinum Subscriber
 
Tifosi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
Posts: 13,741
Only if you supply pictures

EDIT:

Note thast up in the FAQ at the top of this subsection there's pictures or a link to pictures showing how the wiring should look on the in-tank sender.




Darren
'84 manufacture ~ '85 MY Spider Graduate

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

as hosted by

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Tifosi; 09-02-2009 at 12:35 PM.
Tifosi is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-02-2009, 04:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,982
a volvo 2409 ( mid 70-early 80) cars had the same pump in them, but a few days ago ,i saw a honda in-tank pump, looked to be the same size as alfa tnak pump, came off a civic.(80's)

anyone can buy a Porsche, only Drivers drive a Alfa Romeo
bianchi1 is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 07:03 AM
Registered User
 
jarrington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by bianchi1 View Post
a volvo 2409 ( mid 70-early 80) cars had the same pump in them, but a few days ago ,i saw a honda in-tank pump, looked to be the same size as alfa tnak pump, came off a civic.(80's)
There's a GM part that fits perfectly; search the BB for "delco fuel pump" and you should find it. The car should actually run OK without the in-tank in most situations, though it's easier on your main fuel pump if you have it. If the car is bogging down at 1/2 tank or whatever it's more likely that the rubber hose connecting the fuel pickup to the pump has split.

-Jason

Jason Arrington
1989 Spider driver
1974 Spider restoration project
jarrington is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-2009, 02:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1
To make an addendum, and I don't mean to steal the thread, how can I check if the main pump or the in-tank pump is out? My spider had been sitting for a while (6 mos or so) and when I got back home last week I started it up and it ran idling for about five minutees, started idling roughly, then eventually died. I drained the tank and put new gas in, still no start. I a rough check through all the injection components, they're good and the main pump shows 7+ volts on my multimeter with the engine running, but when I pulled the fuel line out of the CSI and cranked there was no fuel pressure whatsoever (i.e. no flow at all). Right now there's only about 2 gals of fuel in the tank. Is there a quick way to check to see whether the cheaper (i.e.in-tank pump) is broken vs the more expensive in-line one? Or if the in-tank pump is out and the main one is good would the car start, but start roughly?

Additionally, I searched for the picture of the proper wiring, but couldn't find it. I know the black wire (ground) attached to the connecter that's on the rim by itts lonesome, but what order do the other wires go? I've tried both combinations, and settled on the striped wire being closest to the back wall of the trunk (based on how the wires are bent).


Jeff

Last edited by SheykAbdullah; 09-04-2009 at 03:27 PM. Reason: More questions
SheykAbdullah is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-2009, 06:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Moorestown, NJ
Posts: 108
I had a recall on both for my 81 still open in 93 ? when I bought it. Alfa dealer in NJ, Fast Auto ,,,took care of it.

Regards,
Doug
------------
81 spider Veloce
87 PORSCHE 944
90 PORSCHE 944 S2 CABRIOLET
81alfa is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-2009, 07:17 PM
BB Janitor
Platinum SubscriberSuper Moderator
 
ghnl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 16,200
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheykAbdullah View Post
how can I check if the main pump or the in-tank pump is out?
The in-tank pump is a low pressure pump to ensure a steady supply of fuel to the high-pressure main pump. Usually, if the fuel level isn't too low, the car will run OK without a functioning in-tank pump. A faulty main pump will stop the engine from running as inadequate fuel pressure means no fuel injection.


Quote:
Additionally, I searched for the picture of the proper wiring, but couldn't find it.
Page 3 of Spider FAQ thread:

- - Eric
don't read this
~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
Mebane, North Carolina


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ghnl is online now  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2019, 11:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 76
Resurrection of this old thread. Car died with about half a tank, then was able to restart. Thought it was bad fuel. Both pumps were replaced not long ago maybe under 1k miles.

Happened again today with close to 3/4 tank. Car restarted again after 10 minutes. I could hear the main pump stuttering.

So should I be replacing both or just the main?
triz is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 01:06 AM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 7,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by triz View Post
Resurrection of this old thread. Car died with about half a tank, then was able to restart. Thought it was bad fuel. Both pumps were replaced not long ago maybe under 1k miles.
Happened again today with close to 3/4 tank. Car restarted again after 10 minutes. I could hear the main pump stuttering.

So should I be replacing both or just the main?
Did you replace the main fuel filter when you did the pumps?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-24-2019, 05:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
Did you replace the main fuel filter when you did the pumps?
I actually redid the whole fuel system. Both pumps, fuel tank, fuel filter and injectors. So a bit dismayed it bit the dust so quickly again. But then again they don't build stuff like they used to.
triz is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome