Koni compatibility Super w/Spider running gear - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Koni compatibility Super w/Spider running gear

Hi,

Pardon my ignorance, but I have a 71 Super with the LSD rear axle and front hubs from an '83/84 Spider (as well as the 2l engine).

My question is: When shopping for shocks (I'm thinking Koni red), does the revised running gear mean I'm shopping for shocks compatible with a Super, or with a Spider? Thanks in advance.

-Tom
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:52 PM
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Tom,

Doesn’t matter , they all fit.

Spider, GTV, sedan (super, berlina) are interchangeable.

Cheers,

Paul.

'74 2000 GTV - Robinia Metallizzato, '73 1.3 Giulia Super - Giallo Prototipo, '68 1750 S1 Berlina - Verde Oliva Metallizzato
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

Cheers, Paul - that helps. Regards, -Tom
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:13 PM
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Thanks for bringing this up. For my information in rebuilding my 1973 Berlina is there any advantage in putting on spider L-Jet era front hubs?

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 03:19 AM
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Richard,

As far as I know there is no difference in the hub setup. I'm down in Oz and we didn't get any fuel injected 105's
but i believe they would be the same as a 73' Berlina. There are 3 sizes of the 'uprights' over the years but 73 onwards should be equal.

Some one local can chime in if its not the case.

Cheers,

Paul.

'74 2000 GTV - Robinia Metallizzato, '73 1.3 Giulia Super - Giallo Prototipo, '68 1750 S1 Berlina - Verde Oliva Metallizzato
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 07:39 AM
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My 71 Super has yellow Koni that where meant for a Spider. No issues here.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 10:01 PM
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I think Koni "sports setting" yellow shocks work exceptionally well on a Super. Last Friday I drove my '72 Super home after a rebuild that took long enough for me to want to reacquaint myself with the car. Driving over the Henly bypass (great road btw) I once again appreciated what a taut and well-controlled ride the sports setting Konis provided. In my estimation, yellow Konis make for a perfect performance oriented, as oposed to a stock feeling, driving dynamic.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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@180OUT - My only hesitation on the Koni yellows is that the roads where I am in the UK are shockingly bad. I spend most of my time on the road, not the track - how do the yellows cope with broken tarmac, potholes, etc.? I want to keep the fillings in my teeth :-) I did have a ride in a Super that had Bilsteins and despite everyone saying that those are hard, it felt pretty good.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:53 AM Thread Starter
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I realize that I'm leaving out at least half of the equation - springs. This is a long term project of mine - I plan on driving the car as standard for a while (maybe forever), but if a set of reds or yellows present themselves, I'm considering which to get in preparation for possible further mods.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 06:12 AM
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Springs are the difference, yep. And if you use 1750/2000 uprights and brakes, you have to use the matching upper arms or adjustable ones. 1600 upper arms at slightly different length.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
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@180OUT - My only hesitation on the Koni yellows is that the roads where I am in the UK are shockingly bad. I spend most of my time on the road, not the track - how do the yellows cope with broken tarmac, potholes, etc.? I want to keep the fillings in my teeth :-) I did have a ride in a Super that had Bilsteins and despite everyone saying that those are hard, it felt pretty good.
Our roads here aren't all that great---I live in a city where indifferent road repair is viewed as "adequate". My subjective impression is that the Super rides and handles so well with it's stock suspension and Koni yellows that I find myself thinking of leaving it as is. I have a limited access side road near me that I like to use as a handling loop. It has a decreasing radius downhill turn that really put the suspension to work. With the Koni yellows it's interesting to feel them working to control the suspension movements as I turn-in and move downhill. I have a set of Alfaholics "A" fast road springs that I plan to install so then I'll be able to make a good comparison. AH recommends Koni yellows all around with their fast road kits and the few people I've taked to have commented that their cars are not uncomfortable in daily driving..

A problem with aftermarket kits sold here in the States is that most had quite stiff front springs---often upwards of 1000lbs while the European kits tended to be lower, say, 500lbs to 700lbs. That's a big difference. Having driven a friends spider with a 70's Ward and Dean handling kit (1100lb front springs with Bilsteins or Spax) I found it firm but not bone jarring. For everyday driving, however, I don't think I'd like something that stiff. It's a matter of taste, of course, but I find the gas preload of Bilsteins a bit harsh relative to the Koni yellows. Since Konis are adjustable, a lot of people choose the Koni red standard shocks and then adjust the front's half-way which approximates the yellows at full-soft. As Andrew says, definitely install adjustable upper control arms which will allow you to dail in camber to your specifications. Doing that has made a huge improvement in my Super's handling.
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Last edited by 180OUT; 04-15-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 09:18 AM
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If the Bilsteins were British sourced there is a fairly high probability that they may have been the revalved ones sold by EB spares.

Revalved Bilsteins can be the shizzzle ... stock ones not so much.

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@180OUT - My only hesitation on the Koni yellows is that the roads where I am in the UK are shockingly bad. I spend most of my time on the road, not the track - how do the yellows cope with broken tarmac, potholes, etc.? I want to keep the fillings in my teeth :-) I did have a ride in a Super that had Bilsteins and despite everyone saying that those are hard, it felt pretty good.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:04 PM
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Teeth rattling usually comes from too-stiff springs, or gas-charged dampers, or dampers with high compression resistance. These cars are so light that any extra resistance to compression can be felt, and installing any of these things affect that.
180out (post #11) provides good perspective.
The difference in compression damping rates between yellows and reds is small (there's a graph published here on the BB), don't let that sway you.
Yellows will give you more future-proofing if you eventually go for harder springs....but the reds will cope with mid-level upgrades very well too.
You won't make a mistake with either, but avoid any gas-charged alternatives.
What's your favourite colour?
Me?...so far, standard springs + Koni reds seem perfectly adequate.
When I was younger, I adjusted my Koni reds to full-stiff. If you pushed the car down, they took ages to rebound. Plenty stiff enough, really.
My 2c.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 01:28 PM
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Iíve got red Koniís front and back. Softest at rear and probably hardest setting up front.
Lowered at rear with Alfaholics fast road and I think up front is Arese from Holland.
After changing rear bushes to stiffer Montreal rubber it handles sooooo much better.
And next winter I will be splurging the front suspension and upgrading with stiffer rubber bushings too.
At the same time I will consider a thicker sway bar.
Oh - I also took off the rear sway bay too.
And yes - you all guessed it. A Berlina 1750 ;-)
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 04:07 AM
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I used to run Koni yellows but with standard suspension (fully rebuilt), plus BWA alloys 14x 6 with Pirelli P600s. To me it was such a great combination. With my Giulia 1300Ti/Super rebuild, I have gone up one step with the use of the Alfaholics Fast Road kit B and with the same BWA alloys. I am yet to get the Koni yellows (not reds) and new springs. Once I can afford this, it will be time to put it all together. It should be great. I used to run Koni yellows plus reds (rebuilt to yellow specs) plus stiff springs and a fully rebuilt suspension and again on the BWA alloys and Pirellis on my 2L Berlina track car/fast road car. It worked really well.

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