Super getting some localized bodywork - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
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More steering/tire info: my 85 Bosch Spider has a ZF (nonpower) box and 205/60-14 tires, some off brand. The car has incredibly light, precise steering. With such big tires I expected worse. So to some extent, within limits, and I think it's the age and type of tire, not necessarily the width, that dictates steering lightness. Also the condition of the steering box, and of course alignment (less caster makes steering lighter but gives less self-centering). I also wonder if Spiders have more weight on the rear (and thus less on the front) than Supers and GTVs, due to the short wheelbase? My sense is the Spider's front end, relatively speaking, hardly touches the ground.

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post #32 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:01 AM
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Andrew, you mentioned the 185/70x14's taller than 165/82x14's . That is interesting. The calculator I have has it the other way around. The aspect ratio of 82 on the 165 is pretty widely accepted, I think..The Pirelli P4000's I have pretty much confirm these numbers for 185/70x14's. Tire Size Calculator - Compare Tire Sizes
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post #33 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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See the picture above for empirical evidence. It may be that 165s are worn and the 185s aren't? Also, tires from different manufacturers can vary small amounts in width and height from the nominal value.
The 165s are 80, not 82, if that changes to calculation any. I wouldn't think much.
I didn't measure the ride height before and after, but I guess should have.
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post #34 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 09:23 AM
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If they are 165/80 and not 82 then they should be almost identical in diameter. I know there are variations by mfr but 82 is pretty much the accepted standard today from what I have researched. In any case the 185/70 is a good replacement for the 165 and cheaper. They track well and steering lightness doesn't seem to be compromised. I think anything bolder in profile exerts the fragile Burman box to stressses not designed in them. That is a totally different subject but I do think tire selection has contributed to failures in Burman boxes.
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post #35 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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I just looked at the Vreds; the model is Sprint Plus S80. My assumption is/was that "80" referred to the aspect ratio, but who knows.
Over the years I've had 185/70-14 on more Super, GTVs, Spiders, and Berlinas than any other size by far. I have 195/60-14 on my track Super and its steering is very light too, even with a small Nardi wheel. It has a ZF box, and my hunch is it's out of a Bosch Spider, but I don't actually know that. Someone else built it as a track, I just rebuilt everything.
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post #36 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I just looked at the Vreds; the model is Sprint Plus S80. My assumption is/was that "80" referred to the aspect ratio, but who knows.
Over the years I've had 185/70-14 on more Super, GTVs, Spiders, and Berlinas than any other size by far. I have 195/60-14 on my track Super and its steering is very light too, even with a small Nardi wheel. It has a ZF box, and my hunch is it's out of a Bosch Spider, but I don't actually know that. Someone else built it as a track, I just rebuilt everything.
Andrew
ZF was on some.. whatever came out of the stock that day.
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post #37 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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The transition from Burman to ZF in Giulias I have documented in my excel sheet, I think early 1967 but will have to look. But of course anything can have happened in the ensuing 45 years. I've never seen a Berlina with a ZF box though.
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post #38 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 05:36 AM
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I don't know about Berlina's but my '72 Super owners manual shows either or.
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post #39 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:17 AM
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Offset

Another major contributing factor to the lightness of steering and the strain put on the steering box is the offset of the rims. I have tried a lot of different combos over the years and the difference (for example) between 185/70x14 on rims with 37mm offset and the same tire dimension on rims with 32 mm offset is very noticable, with the steering feeling much more nimble with the larger offset. At the moment I am running 185/65x15 Pirelli P3000 on 6x15 Saab steelies with 37mm offset and am more than pleased with the feel of the steering.
Just a thought.
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71 Giulia 1300 Super - 1962 cc, 03 156-Sportwagon 1.9 JTD, 74 KTM Ponny II Super 4 Deluxe

Last edited by super1750; 11-12-2012 at 07:18 AM. Reason: typo
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post #40 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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My Berlina currently has BWAs on it, but virtually every other Alfa I've driven more than 5 miles has had Alfa steel wheels, Turbinas, or Bosch Spider mags. So I'd presume they all have stock/similar offset.
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post #41 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:25 AM
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Don't quote me on this but I am pretty sure that the stock 5x14 steelies for a Giulia had a 37mm offset and the turbinas 32mm. I have never had the Bosch Spider mags so I don't know about them. The 5.5 steelies for spiders and gtvs (I believe) only have 32 or 30mm offset...

71 Giulia 1300 Super - 1962 cc, 03 156-Sportwagon 1.9 JTD, 74 KTM Ponny II Super 4 Deluxe

Last edited by super1750; 11-12-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: completion
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post #42 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, very useful.
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post #43 of 219 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 07:54 AM
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So If I understand offset correctly - the larger the offset # the closer your wheel will be to the inboard side of your wheel well. effectively narrowing the track of your car?
I think I could see how that would effect the turn in feel or nimbleness as opposed to a smaller offset that would have the wheel on a wider track.

T

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post #44 of 219 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Not related to the bodywork on this car, but my wife used it as a wedding limo last week in SF. A couple she works with (they all work for the City) got married, and she ferried them in the Super from City Hall to the ceremony. She raided our daughter's closet to dress up as a chauffeur as part of the fun.

Here they are illegally parked in front of City Hall, and no, that's not the happy couple on the left, it was a straight wedding. Second pic shows them en route. My experience is you can get away with almost anything, in terms of traffic, in a Giulia sedan. Was showing friends around Berkeley a couple months ago and ended up driving across Sproul Plaza on the UC Berkeley campus on a Sunday. We hadn't intended to end up there, but no one seemed to mind, and everyone loved the car.

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post #45 of 219 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 10:06 AM
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Lovely pictures, Thanks for sharing!

Giulia Super "Biscione" 28th February 1969
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