Super getting some localized bodywork - Page 14 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #196 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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It seemed familiar to me too, but I didn't have any VIN or other on it til now .
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post #197 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Progress on all Super fronts. Larry Jr of APE came over Saturday, we got the glass back into my Super after paint. He's pretty experienced at this, I've done it by I'm no expert. Reused my old rear glass with a new gasket from Jon Norman. Front glass was NOS from AFRA, 1996, along with a NOS Alfa gasket that was fine. Got the old trim out, cleaned, lubed everything with Vaseline, worked both of them from top down (that is, insert the top first, then use the crossed cord method to feed the gasket onto the body lip, all the way around). Took maybe 90 minutes, some pushing, finessing, wiggling, got 'em both in and we were happy. Cleaned all the goo up, finished putting the wipers and dash trim back, all done. Car is back on the road.

The red car, here it is with the 91-YO owner. I was mistaken on when he bought it; more like 5-10 years ago. Gas in the car smells nasssssssssssssty but it runs on it, diluted with some new. Got the head on, got it running Saturday afternoon. Runs on all four, drive reasonably well for a car that's been off the road for many years, but #1 has low compression. Comes up with some oil in the cylinder, so seems like rings. Put in some Marvel oil to see if that frees anything up. For now will do some more exploring, but #1 is so low that it's not viable to drive, I don't think, without a rebuild. Brakes work but are wooden. I drove it 'round the neighborhood but I wouldn't go out into the real world. But still, it's pretty remarkable.

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post #198 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:15 AM
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Did you put the glass in with the window trim installed or install it later? I've always inexpertly assumed that putting the gasket in and then installing the trim isn't advisable because of the possibility of bent, unobtanium trim. But then a few months ago Yachtman showed a special install tool that apparently makes that relatively easy. And then, and then, Bulletproof/Scott moves to town with his Italian restored Jr. and his shop had installed the trim after fitting the gasket . . . I've got new front glass for my Super but I've been holding off until I learn more about the install.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #199 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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1. Remove old glass as complete unit by cutting the gasket with a box cutter. Go carefully, don't cut headliner. Just pull it out of the opening. This assumes you'll use a new gasket.
2. Off the car, set glass on something and work, or cut, gasket off glass.
3. With gasket removed, just pull trim out. Bend rubber to open trough and it comes right out. Don't bend it! Finish will craze if you do.
4. Clean up, etc.
5. Put new gasket on glass. Center it, get it happily in place. You can stretch and bunch as needed to make it happy.
6. Lube gasket and trim (Vaseline, silicone spray, your special blend), press trim into gasket by hand, working around. Corners can be tricky. Be patient, don't hit or bend trim.
7. Further lube gasket and body lip, put lubed cord in gasket trough, insert top of glass in body.
8. One [wo]man inside, one out, push glass up and in, center it, start pulling rope to lift gasket edge over body lip. Work slowly carefully across the top, down each side, then across the bottom. Outside person pushes in/up/sideways as needed. Use a not-sharp 90* pick of some kind to help guide gasket onto body lip.
9. Clean up Vaseline or spray lube. Seal further if so inclined with mastic, silicone, whatever.

Dot's it mon.
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post #200 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:35 AM
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Thanks, Andrew. I'm moving from relative to specific ignorance on this topic. Oh, yeah. How did the repaint turn out?
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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #201 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 09:32 AM
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Did you put the glass in with the window trim installed or install it later? I've always inexpertly assumed that putting the gasket in and then installing the trim isn't advisable because of the possibility of bent, unobtanium trim.
That's what I've always been told as well. So I would add to Andrew's list of steps:

4.5 Reinstall trim into gasket
5. Put new gasket & cleaned-up trim on glass.....

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Scott moves to town with his Italian restored Jr. and his shop had installed the trim after fitting the gasket . . .
After fitting the gasket to the glass but before installing that assembly into the car's body? In other words, swapping steps 4.5 and 5 above? Yes, that I can believe. But once the glass + gasket are installed into the car, the groove that accepts the trim would be tough to open up enough to force the trim in.

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'67 Duetto
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post #202 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:43 PM
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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted. Yachtman posted a photo of the tool and it looks like something profession al installers would have. I think I've seen one before but didn't know what it was. Perhaps Yachtman can enlighten us? I've been putting off replacing a cracked front windshield . . .

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #203 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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We did all out trim removal and insertion by hand, was not an issue.
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post #204 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:00 PM
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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted.
So you're saying (or perhaps Yachtsman's saying) that with this magic tool, you can insert the metal trim into the seal after the glass & seal are installed into the body?

If you say so, I'm willing to believe it. But I'm still not getting why you would do it that way, when it's so simple to press the trim into the gasket prior to installing it around the glass. It has to be less traumatic to the fragile trim to do this operation by hand, rather than rely on the specialized tool.

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'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
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post #205 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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I wouldn't do that. The trim is very soft and once crazed, you can't uncraze unless you polish the finish off. I can't see a reason to go in that order. We didn't have any trouble. Just my experience.
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post #206 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 01:29 PM
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... I drove it 'round the neighborhood but I wouldn't go out into the real world.

Andrew
Is that a Berkeley Freudian slip? Definitely gave me a chuckle.

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Past: 71, 74 Spiders, 2x 74 Berlina, 74 GTV, 76 Alfetta GT, 88 Milano 3.0, 97 164LS
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post #207 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
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Jay, there's a little tool that functions like a wedge to open up the gasket and allow the trim to be fitted. Yachtman posted a photo of the tool and it looks like something profession al installers would have. I think I've seen one before but didn't know what it was. Perhaps Yachtman can enlighten us? I've been putting off replacing a cracked front windshield . . .
Wrong way to install it. Alfa Romeo and every other car manufacturer install the trim BEFORE the window is installed. This tool is to save $'s when you don't want to pull the windscreen, but if you are installing new rubber seal or your current windscreen is destined for the rubbish bin, you have to remove it anyway.

Bit like removing a VW Golf Mk4 gearbox without removing the suspension cross member. It can be done by angling this and that (youtube videos have even been made), cursing, etc., but to remove that suspension cross member only requires removing 4 large bolts and 4 small ones (to let the steering rack go); its a ten minute job, and then the gearbox comes out ridiculously easy.
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post #208 of 221 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Ian, funny choice of words on my part sure; if you're inclined as a Freudian, everything looks like a [fill in the blank]. I had a Freudian lit professor at Cal and it was very tiresome. He knew only one note.
I wouldn't take the car onto the freeway, for instance, what I was getting at.
More tinkering today, trying some kerosene in #1. Might take ages to free up the rings, if at all. Leaks a good amount of oil too, including right out the join on the pan bottom. I'm talking to the owner about what he wants to do. He bought this car for probably not much 10 years ago. I'm doing this see-how-it-is work for almost nothing, but to do an engine and brake rebuild, I need to get paid. It may not make sense for him or me. We'll see.

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post #209 of 221 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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It's not the point of this thread to cover other than my green Super, but what the heck. The red car is up and running. The owner and I discussed at length; #1 cylinder has not yet joined in much, continues to have about 50 lbs compression. It is producing power, barely. It eventually fouls the plug. But it runs well enough to drive. So before he and I agreed to spend big time and money on an engine rebuild, I talked him into making the car safe to drive first, see what he thinks of it. Because he's never really driven it. So over the last two weeks I did brakes, front end, tires, to get it operable and safe enough for him to piddle around the Peninsula and get a feel for it.

Rebuilt all that stuff, new calipers, hoses, pads, MC, and I rebuilt the booster with a Classic Alfa kit. All new tie rod ends, upper ball joints, caster rods. Bottom piece of the oil pan, which barely kept the oil in, I removed, to discover it had no gasket, no sealer, and a bunch of big gouges in the sealing surface. Had to sell him a new pan bottom, and now the engine retains its oil. Got the car on the road yesterday, it drives well. Brakes came together on the first try. Drove it around, works well. So I'm going to give it back to him to drive around, enjoy, get used to it. If #1 doesn't eventually sort itself out we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Supers are so great, let them sit for 10-20 years, do some basic maintenance and they're wonderful to drive again. Here it is comparing notes with my car.

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post #210 of 221 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:54 AM
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Andrew, Crysler has an aerosol spray that is designed to help rings re-seat after the cylinder walls have become glazed. You can get it at the parts counter (can't remember the exact name). Anyway, a friend tired it on an engine with low compression and, quite surprisingly, it worked. I had similar results on one cylinder that wasn't up to snuff. Sure, it's mouse-milk but it's not expensive and might be worth a try.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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