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post #31 of 98 (permalink) Old 04-11-2008, 01:05 PM
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Moretti 750 bialbero

Here is a listing that highlights a bit about the confusion that is known thus far (to me anyway) of Moretti bialbero production ... with a few other cars thrown in for reference as well. I'm afraid that it is not particularly encylopaedic! But it is a start and I'm sure that there are some folks out there who have details to add to individual car descriptions and histories if not the overall listing.

This "highlights" listing scratches the surface of the detail that has been collected and I am always adding more. For anyone who shares specific information about a car they own or perhaps used to own or know well, more detail awaits. As always, I exchange information for information.

As an example, I am not yet aware of any documentation that supports the claim, albeit of dubious "value", of any one car being the August, 1954 Road and Track magazine cover car. If a car has that documentation available (rather than mere claims), I would like to see it. Many car owners have made the claim, albeit with some doubt often expressed. I suspect that the documentation would allow me to move some of the unidentified history in the attached listing under a specific chassis number.

I am quite certain that at least ten cars were built in the so-called "berlinetta Gran Sport" configuration. I suspect that there were some more, but probably not as many as twenty.

Note: It would seem that my file's size 103kB exceeded the forum's modest 97kB limit so more editing will be necessary ... I guess I'll remove the "unidentified" section, even if that is the portion that would be most interesting to the car-hunters. If anyone wants the unedited version of this highlights listing, just PM me with your email.

All the best.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
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File Type: doc MORETTI-bialbero-highlights-iicar2008-03-20-AlfaBB.doc (79.5 KB, 999 views)
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post #32 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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moretti 750

John, fantastic fascinating information. I wonder if you have anything else on 1292. I do have the chain of ownership from its original owner to the present if you are interested.
As a student I once traveled to Indiana and put a downpayment on a 750Tdm that was owned by Gunderman but never went back and collected it. I think they owned a body shop. It was in terrible shape and probably not salvagable. I believe it wound up in the Norteast maybe Vermont. I also own a 750Tdm II with engine # 3207 that is complete but needs complete restoration. It may be for sale if you know anyone who is interested.
Thanks,
David
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post #33 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 09:14 PM
 
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I owned #1037, one of 2 Zagato bodied 750 bialbero coupes in the mid 1980s. Lurani found the car, it was restored by Galbiati, but the restoration cost was more than was initially thought, so it went back to Galbiati and then to Rudy Pas. I had money tied up in the restoration for something like 3 years, and as I had to sell it because of the actual cost of the restoration, I basically broke even on my investment...




period photo; car was cream over dark red...

Last edited by dretceterini; 05-27-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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post #34 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 09:18 PM
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Moretti 1292s

Hi David,

The earliest ownership information I have for N. 1292s is Henry Grady (of later "Begra" fame) as of about 1956/57 time period. He sold it and it went through a few other owners before he repurchased it 1962 and owned it for quite a long time until Hurricane Hugo damaged a building that fell onto it. When I had correspondence with Henry about the car a number of years ago, both before and after the hurricane, he either could not or would not share earlier history.

There is always some risk in this kind of anecdotal reporting as it has been found that, in a couple of cases, someone thought they were getting their old car back when it was actually another. Those kinds of assumptions can wreak havoc on actual "research" as we can be led astray in a most perplexing manner, particularly when another car comes along that either claims the same history or can document it!

Sometimes anecdotal accounts are the best thing we've got to work with, but photos and official paper (that doesn't always tell the whole truth either!) are generally more reliable.

Henry borrowed a five-main crank from me for a good long time but eventually did return it. I'm not sure if it was before or after selling the car. I'm also not sure what he was trying to learn from the crank. Being a racing-oriented guy, he may have trying to divine how some extra mains could be added to his three-main? Just a guess.

I would be pleased to share a more detailed listing with you, personally, and I would also be pleased to include any additional information you might have. It is your choice as to whether you'd like to have the exchange happen publicly in the forum or privately.

I will generally share more detail in a private listing if we can agree that not all information is appropriate for all eyes. ... Not that there are any tremendously important secrets, but sometimes there are gossipy details ... or contact information ... or snide comments .... or photos of holes in engine blocks .... or phone numbers of bawdy ... (you get the idea?) that might be best left to a limited audience. Not all tire-kickers need know what an owner/enthusiast maybe ought to know? I say that with the full realization that sometimes I am more of a tire-kicker than owner and (partially?) as a result of that, there is often information that is not shared with myself by some owners. That is simply the way it is.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
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post #35 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 09:46 PM
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Moretti Tour du Monde

David,

My notes indicate that Gunderman has or had Moretti N. 2933, a convertible from which the engine had been stolen at some time. That's not to say he might not have had another at some time. Perhaps you can confirm or deny?

Your TdM, N. 3207, was last reported to me rather vaguely as being in a town in New York. I have the town name but no owner name and will not reveal the town name on the off chance that it might reveal more about you than you would wish to have be known in this forum.

All the best,

John de Boer
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post #36 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
I owned #1037, one of 2 Zagato bodied 750 bialbero coupes in the mid 1980s. Lurani found the car, it was restored by Galbiati, but the restoration cost was more than was initially thought, so it went back to Galbiati and then to Rudy Pas. I had money tied up in the restoration for something like 3 years, and as I had to sell it because of the actual cost of the restoration, I basically broke even on my investment...




period photo; car was cream over dark red...
Hi Stu-
It's been a long time since we've spoken. I'm looking for a neat '50s fuoriserie car. Do you have any idea where #1037 is today?
Donald Osborne
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post #37 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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Hi Stu-
It's been a long time since we've spoken. I'm looking for a neat '50s fuoriserie car. Do you have any idea where #1037 is today?
Donald Osborne

Don:
check your PMs..
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post #38 of 98 (permalink) Old 05-28-2008, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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John, The Gunderman car was a Tdm convertible without its engine and was literally sitting with grass and brush growing up through it. It was in terrible shape. My other car came from NY and I believe is the one you mentioned. I would be happy to discuss the provenance of 1292 as I have the chain of ownership I believe back to its importation. I agree because of confidentiality and the possibility of introducing incorrect information into the history that it should be out of the general forum but dont really know which format you would like. I am happy to call you if you like. I will also be in Monterey in August and we could discuss it then, let me know, David
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post #39 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 01:10 PM
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Angry Dr4's 750 Moretti GT

Years ago, maybe 1957, when I was about 20 and foolish, I owned one of these. I traded my Porsche 356 super for it to a person named Jack Ashurst, I think who may have bought it from Mcafee. Sorry, can't remember its serial number. Originally it was silver, but I had it stripped and painted red. I raced it once admittedly before I had much driving time in it. Well, I should say raced it for one day. I blew the engine, mostly because of my inexperience and partly because the gear ratio from 3rd to 4th was so tall that the little aluminum brakes (which were warped by the previous owner) could not get the speed down quick enough to avoid over-revving. The engineering on the rod (babitt-filled) bearings was not that great. It used a pin through a hole in the center of the bearing shell to prevent it from rotating on the crankshaft. That pin could shear off, which is what happened to me.
After a year, when I finally got some parts from Italy (with the help of an Italian neighbor), and some work by local machine shops, I put the engine back together, me and my best friend, my dad. He helped me pull the engine. I had no engine blueprints, no manual, no one who could help, nothing. On the first assembly, I got one of the main bearing holes that routed oil to the overhead cams misaligned. I dissassembled the engine and tried again. Unfortunately, this time I misaligned the rear journal which fed oil to the rear bearing. At this point, I was so discouraged, I packed up the engine and shipped it to someone in Nashville, TN or someplace and replaced the original engine with an 850 cc Ferry modified Renault installed by a guy down in Newport beach, CA. Finally, I sold the car to a man in Seattle, I think. Never met him, just the driver he sent to pick it up. I made another mistake, replacing the original, straight slat grill with a custom egg crate grill made by a shop in LA, but I don't remember the name of the shop.
What I really wanted to let you know is that this car was not particularly well designed or pleasant to drive. The battery was stored just above where a passenger's feet went: not good. The starter was activated by manually pulling a cable that passed through the firewall to an arm on the starter solenoid. The electrical was very cheap and the ignition switch literally crumbed to pieces one day. The tranny was so noisy, whinny and growly that it would drive you insane to listen to it. Lastly that alumiunm body would dent if you even looked cross-eyed at it. The rear window was acrylic (plexiglass plastic) and the tires were narrow like a tractor's and the brake drums were aluminum!
On the plus side, it was pretty cute and the engine had a sound not unlike that of a little Ferrari.
So, before you lose too much sleep dreaming about one of these, I just wanted you to know the reality of owning one. They weren't that great!
Dr4

Last edited by dr4; 03-11-2009 at 11:35 AM.
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post #40 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 04:50 PM
 
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Did Pat's 1967 Moretti Sportiva belong to this same family? His was more swoopy or waved on the fenders and had more like a kamm tail....the appearance is very different from what I can tell and remember. Granted there is about 10 years difference in styling and production dates.
Just found your post...no, Pat's Moretti Sportiva didn't have any real connection to the 750 twin cams built from circa 1950 through circa 1955.
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post #41 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 05:59 PM
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Moretti 750 - Ferry Renault

Welcome "dr4" and thank you for your memories. You were already on my "to-do" list as someone I should search out in order to (hopefully) learn more. I do not yet know the chassis number of your car but I have notes that you advertised it in June of 1958. A bit more than two years later it (almost certainly) was advertised again in Washington state. After that .... ??

I would welcome any more memories, particularly if there is additional descriptive information that may help us to identify the car's identity. And, if you PM me with a direct means of contacting you, I will share a listing with some more detail that i would enjoy having you comment on.

These cars do have some flaws, but some of them can be overcome, and they are wonderful objects regardless. I have a 1952 car that definitely has some inadequacies in the chassis, strength-wise. It will be a challenge doing a repair and strengthening it in such a way that the repair looks like it belongs to the original design ... if I get around to doing more than just fixing it and living with its foibles.

Thanks again.
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post #42 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 06:45 PM
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Hello iicarjohn,
Thanks for your note. I wish I had more information that would identify this particular GT. All I can remember is that I had two dents repaired with bondo (yikes!) one on the top of the right front fender and one on the little tail light cover, and of course the egg crate grill. There is another Moretti with such a grill conversion and I've often wondered if that was my car. It really wasn't a great car relative to the Porsche of the time. It had great looks and a great sound, but that's about the size of it.
dr4
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post #43 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 08:41 PM
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Moretti 750GS

Hi dr4,

The one known car utiizing an eggcrate grille is 1293s, formerly Karl Ludvigsen's car. It does not have its original engine as engine 1293s is in 1294s and the history of the engine (1293s) is traced back to about 1964 when it was in Tennessee.

The chassis 1293s is also traced back to the early 1960's when it was in Florida with owners who sold it in the 1970's to New Jersey. So, it would have had to go from Washington to Florida between 1960 and 1963/64. Quite possible! Now I will try to learn to see if the possibility can be verified or denied.

Thanks for the inspiration.

John
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post #44 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2009, 11:11 PM
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That's it! I did sell the original engine to someone in Tennesee, not Arkansas as I had thought. And it wasn't Fayetteville, it was Nashville! Now I remember it because I'd thought that is where the Grand Old Opry was. BTW, I had included a handwritten text of how to remove and replace the camshafts and set the timeing and warned them not to lose it. Not a week later they contacted me and said they'd lost it and wanted another copy. But no soap. I couldn't remember the procedure anymore. Thank you so much for your help. My Moretti was indeed 1293s.
dr4
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post #45 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-10-2009, 02:07 PM
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my files ( K. Ludvigson research ?):

California > Washington
1964 Florida, property of Norman & Betty Dobbins; Dunedin
1966, Gene Cesari ( planed restoration, buying more Moretti-parts, stored in Pennsylvania) but sold body to
Jack O'Donnel; Westfield, New Jersey

regards
Peter L
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