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post #31 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isorivolta
Well, here it is;

Guess it's a matter of personal taste. To me it looks like some kind of AMC abortion.
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post #32 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini
Guess it's a matter of personal taste. To me it looks like some kind of AMC abortion.
What the Pacer should have been???

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post #33 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dretceterini
Guess it's a matter of personal taste. To me it looks like some kind of AMC abortion.
Perhaps the reason why only one prototype was built. I don't think they ever got it running. Perhaps the shell is still somewhere hidden in a shed. If you find it put it on a Rivolta chassis, buy badges, print some "official documents", and ask a fortune.
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post #34 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 04:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by isorivolta
Perhaps the reason why only one prototype was built. I don't think they ever got it running. Perhaps the shell is still somewhere hidden in a shed. If you find it put it on a Rivolta chassis, buy badges, print some "official documents", and ask a fortune.

I'll leave that to certain other members on the BB.
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post #35 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 11:05 PM
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So put us out of our misery .... what the heck is it?!
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post #36 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-03-2006, 11:53 PM
 
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WTD/HVB/X

In fact not really interesting at all. But since the other one isn't that interesting either I thought I'd post this one too.
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post #37 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isorivolta
This is the real response to the question send to the ISO Committee:

I have ridden your e-mail and I belive there's a misunderstanding.
I agree perfectly the words of IMC member Alessandro Brioschi who
explain that this car is not built by Bizzarrini and don't have
connection with ISO history. He correctly writes to kind Mr AlfaRonny
that the car is probably a replica of the original car who all we know,
the original Ferrari Bread Van, built in the sixties by Bizzarrini. Alessandro
in his email DON'T says nothing about the origin of the model in the
pictures who may be naturally built on an ISO chassis.



Is someone trying to fool us into thinking there is a link between this car and Mr. Bizzarrini????
While the english in the response from the ISO committee is poor they clearly state this car was not built by Bizzarrini. Thus it's just a replica.

Now we all know that Bizzarrini (not Drogo) built the original and unique Ferrari breadvan on a 250SWB chassis after Ferrari refused to sell the 250SWB owner a new 250GTO. This is because the car's owner (Count Volpi) was involved with the ATS group of engineers that split from Ferrari in the (in)famous coup in the early 60's.

Pete
ps: Many sites list the bodywork as being a Drogo, but my reading and understanding is that the car is close to a one man design effort by Bizzarrini (also the main designer of the GTO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/2005/may/breadvan/report.asp
The 1961 Ferrari 250 GT 'Breadvan' Berlinetta—A Short History
The Breadvan, chassis 2819 GT, started life as a 250 SWB (the predecessor to the GTO) and was raced immediately following completion in September 1961, coming second in the Tour de France. Before the year was out, it had passed into the ownership of Count Volpi for competition use by his by his Scuderia SSS team.

After an infamous internal revolt at Ferrari at the end of 1961, Count Volpi seized the opportunity to staff his team with the Ferrari's top engineers - and in doing so provoked Enzo Ferrari to refuse him the delivery of one of the much-heralded GTOs. As Volpi now had the engineers that had created the GTO working for him, he commissioned 2819 GT to be 'evolved' in order to compete with Ferrari directly.

The result was the birth of a car that quickly earned the name of 'La Camionette' (The Breadvan); engineered by Bizzarrini and with aerodynamic principles pioneered by Professor Kamm, the Breadvan featured a rakish nose and an abrupt rear end.

The car may have lacked the five-speed gearbox of the GTO, but using a similar mechanical specification proved a worthy contender. At Le Mans in 1962 the Breadvan was leading all the GTOs before a driveshaft failure in the fourth hour forced retirement and later in 1962 at Montlhèry it finished third overall (behind two and in front of seven GTOs)—it also took class honors at Brands Hatch in the hands of Carlo Abate.

In the years following retirement from the centerstage of GT racing, the Breadvan has led a documented, varied and charismatic life and has traveled the globe many times—and comes direct from long-term ownership in restored (yet used and enjoyed) condition."
Maybe Drogo built the body to Bizzarrini's design or something ... it does bear some simularities to other Drogo bodies ... but which came first?

I can always ask Count Volpi as he posts occassionally on FerrariChat .

Okay more research and this is from an Octane article that discusses the car with Count Volpi:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.octane-magazine.com/5.pdf
So the Ferrari was sent to Piero Drogo’s Carrozzeria Sports Cars in Modena, the body was removed and Bizzarrini went to work. He was passionate about aerodynamics and needed to get the car’s centre of gravity as close to the middle as possible. On his GTO prototype, Bizzarrini had moved the engine much further back than in the 250SWB, so the entire powerplant rested behind the front axle. He did the same on the Breadvan but was even more aggressive with the engine’s placement; Volpi recalls it being 12cm further back compared with its original SWB location.
But Bizzarrini wasn’t done. To drop the engine lower in the chassis he installed a dry sump oiling system. He also replaced the V12’s three-carb set-up with six dual-throat Weber 38DCNs. The front suspension’s castor was tweaked, and the car received GTO wheels and tyres. But there was no GTO-style five-speed gearbox, and the SWB’s four-speeder remained.
The most radical change was the car’s unforgettable carrozzeria. Its avant-garde lightweight body featured a knife-edge nose that was extremely low, thanks to the engine’s front/mid-engine design. In fact, the front bonnet’s profile was so aggressive that a teardrop-shaped clear cover was added to house the six carbs protruding from the centre.
Bizzarrini’s love of aerodynamics shows up in other areas. The roofline is considerably lower and the windshield has a more severe rake than the standard SWB, the sides are devoid of any protrusions, and the rear features a vertical, truncated ‘Kamm’ tail. Four years later the engineer’s thought process got the greatest ‘imitation is the sincerest form of flattery’ compliment when Ford unveiled the J-car, a GT40 that served as the starting point for the Mk IV that won Sebring and Le Mans.
Drogo’s men made the bodywork out of the thinnest-gauge aluminium possible. Bizzarrini also did everything he could to keep the weight down in the interior. Stark in the extreme, it featured individual bucket seats, a full complement of gauges and switches, and nary a thread of insulation anywhere.
Thus as far as I am concerned Drogo did not design the body, Bizzarrini did and it was simply built at Drogo's workshop. Thus surely it should not be referred to as a 'Drogo'.

We don't create Scaglletti (sp?) with the 250SWB design do we, even though his company built them, but Pininfarina design the shape.

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Last edited by PSk; 07-04-2006 at 12:20 AM.
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post #38 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isorivolta
WTD/HVB/X

In fact not really interesting at all. But since the other one isn't that interesting either I thought I'd post this one too.
I'm still none the wiser, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. Anyone got a real Bizzarrini in a barn?
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post #39 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 12:18 AM
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Re the breadvan Ferrari, Drogo's shop was the constructor but had access to and co-operation from the ATS engineers, Bizzarrini amongst them
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post #40 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 06:01 AM
 
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It s quite funny to see all this messages !
Why nobody ask the owner the story of his car ?
It will be more simple !
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post #41 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 07:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olczyk
It s quite funny to see all this messages !
Why nobody ask the owner the story of his car ?
It will be more simple !
The way to establish the history of a car is NOT by asking the owner! You tace the history by going forward in time frim when the car was built, and also backward in time from the current owner. The stories should be the same. If they are not, then someone is telling a lie.
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post #42 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 10:17 AM
 
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Wow.....Still the same
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post #43 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 11:59 AM
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Talking

Alex,

Is this what you asked for?
I found this one two weeks ago. So barnfinds still appear.

Ciao,
Jack
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post #44 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 12:43 PM
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Dretceterini is absolutely right about tracing the history of a car. whilst it is courteous to ask the current owner, he may often and sometimes sadly not be aware of the truth and realities. Still back to the car in question, will Mr Olczyk deign to enlighten us?
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post #45 of 146 (permalink) Old 07-04-2006, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olczyk
Wow.....Still the same
Is anyone so stupid as to believe what the owner of a car tells you about it? So many stories on cars, presented in magazines as articles, are really nothing more than rather obvious attempts to sell the car by the current owner. In most cases, at least half of what is presented as fact is simply lies.

Last edited by dretceterini; 07-04-2006 at 03:07 PM.
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