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post #76 of 128 (permalink) Old 07-13-2009, 07:53 AM
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The car is surely not an OSI although the chassis is quite the same - the Fiat 1200 platform. But it's got some similarities with a '58 Ghia model, based on a Fiat 1200 chassis and the Ghia 230 (based on Fiat 2300). Both cars were designed by Sergio Sartorelli during his Ghia times.
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post #77 of 128 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 02:04 PM
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If I were a designer-to-be with an idea... Let's say young and wild, I would do something like the nose of this car, and then, after having slept on it for some years, I might finally hit on it, and it would look like this:
(very first thing I thought when I saw the pics)

Ghia 450 ss


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post #78 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 11:42 AM
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Fiat Osca 118S

118S is the designation from Fiat for Fiat Osca 1500 / 1600 Twin cam. The steering is a standard, 118H (Pushrod) or 118S (Fiat Osca) mechanism. This was a carry over from the 1100 / 1200 103 cars, Very similar unibody chassis. These were some of Fiat first unibodied cars. Very early cars prior to 1952 designated 101, had ladder frames. Fiat 1100 S and 1100ES. Early cars were all alloy drums, 61- 64 were front discs rear alloy drums, 65-66, 4 wheel disc Girling brakes, similar to Maaerati 3500. It looks to me like the front end was modifed by previus owner. Fiat did quite a few Viotti Bodied 118 Cars, mostly coupe but also did Alemano coupes and convertibles. Similar to your car. and the rear taillights were more upright then the Pininfarina cars. Dash also is not Pininfarina. Wire wheels are definately British, most likey Dunlop, Borrani's would have straight two eared knock offs not curved. I will try and dig up some pics of Fiat Viotti 1500. Fun project. Hopefully when they stuffed the V8 in there didnt hack up the chassis. I have 118S engine and front sub frame if needed. Feel free to emial if you need help. I have restored several 118 cars. have accumated quite a few parts.
James
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post #79 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 01:06 PM
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118S is the designation from Fiat for Fiat Osca 1500 / 1600 Twin cam. The steering is a standard, 118H (Pushrod) or 118S (Fiat Osca) mechanism. This was a carry over from the 1100 / 1200 103 cars, Very similar unibody chassis. These were some of Fiat first unibodied cars. Very early cars prior to 1952 designated 101, had ladder frames. Fiat 1100 S and 1100ES. Early cars were all alloy drums, 61- 64 were front discs rear alloy drums, 65-66, 4 wheel disc Girling brakes, similar to Maaerati 3500. It looks to me like the front end was modifed by previus owner. Fiat did quite a few Viotti Bodied 118 Cars, mostly coupe but also did Alemano coupes and convertibles. Similar to your car. and the rear taillights were more upright then the Pininfarina cars. Dash also is not Pininfarina. Wire wheels are definately British, most likey Dunlop, Borrani's would have straight two eared knock offs not curved. I will try and dig up some pics of Fiat Viotti 1500. Fun project. Hopefully when they stuffed the V8 in there didnt hack up the chassis. I have 118S engine and front sub frame if needed. Feel free to emial if you need help. I have restored several 118 cars. have accumated quite a few parts.
James
James,
I would like to buy a 118 S motor.I will send you a PM.
Regards,Grant
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post #80 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 01:47 PM
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Another Abarth

Hi,
I dont want to highjack anothers thread.So,I will be short.I just got back from Portugal a few days ago where I bought an Abarth that is relevant to this subject.
Very very solid and original.Original alloy front and back lids,complete interior,quilted boot,girlings.No engine as of yet but I did PM the previous member.
I only know of one other.Yes....it came from 'that barn'.The old wifes tale of the New Yorkers land purchase that we all saw on the net.Its still on youtube I believe.
Grant
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post #81 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 06:54 AM
 
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Abarth 1600 Allemano Spider

Hi Earl !

Congratulations to your "new" car.

It is an Abarth 1600 Allemano spider from 1959. I have a similar model in the Coupé-version, it is a lovely car and we have had it in my family since 1964, please see my car in the 2 attached images.

My car still has its original engine, an OSCA-Engine that gave an output of 75 HP as original, manufactured by the Maserati-brothers after they sold Maserati. The engine is 4-cyl twincam 1600cc and gives and output of approx. 96 HP after Abarth laid their touch on it, quit a lot in the late 50's in a car that only weighs 975 kg :-). The sound of the engine and exhaust system is wonderful :-).

My car is designed by Giovanni Michelotti and the bodywork is made by a company named Allemano, both located in Italy at the time.

Our cars was made as the "new bigger Abarth cars" to meet the competition in the late 50's and as I was informed it was only made in 23 pcs, 7 coupes and 8 spiders, in the remaining 8 pcs the chassi-number does not tell if it is a coupe or spider.
As I understand the cars were quit expensive as new and they were therefore not well met by the market (I was informed that the original price was double the price of an Jaguar E-type).

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to write me.

With Best regards,

/ Letzen
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post #82 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 07:25 AM
 
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Abarth 1600 Allemano Coupe

Dear Grant Gauld,

Congratulations to you too :-).

Nice to hear that there are more Abarth 1600's that are to be restored, I was earlier informed that only 7 pcs were still "alive", maybe this was only the coupes.

You refer to something on YouTube and I tried to find it, but I did not succed. Would you please post a link if you find it again ?

I also think it is nice to learn more about my car even if I have had it for a long time. As you most probarbly have noticed already it is not easy to find information about it.

Best regards,

/ Letzen
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post #83 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 07:32 AM
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Dear All,

First i want to thank you all for contributing to this forum.
It is great fun reading all comments!! Thank you !!

I have bought Earl's car about a month ago after he had decided to sell it.
Believe the car is a Fiat Abarth 1600 Osca Allemano spider. Maybe it is a prototype body made for one of the big car shows like Turin or Geneva. ( probably 1960 )

Have spent a lot of time doing research, but it is tough to find pictures of these shows.
Did find a picture of the Ferrari booth showing a 250.., with the Allemano booth in the background, but unfortunately the car is only for a small part on this picture..

A lot of us including myself in the beginning have thought about Ghia in respect to the body. Ghia has used this body style, but believe this bodystyle is in fact a Michelotti design. ( Look at the Lancia Appia Vignale from 1956 ) It is on the Michelotti website.

Best regards, Vincent van Gool, AEW.
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post #84 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Earl Rausch View Post
Thanks for the reply !
The pictures were taken three days ago, And the engine is an aluminum block V8 that the guy who had owned the car wanted to put in, It is just siting in there and not hooked up, I plan on selling the engine and will be looking for something that would be close to what Fiat had put in the car.
I ran out of room to post any more pictures but the plastic filler is at least 1/4 to 1/2 inches in some places.
Thanks
Earl
Earl and gang,
I have to say the Allemano 1600 also has very very thick filler on the inside edge of the top of the guards.This car looks to be on its original paint so it is possible the guys at Allemano (or subcontractors) finished the profile like this in the first place.
Grant
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post #85 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Letzen View Post
Dear Grant Gauld,

Congratulations to you too :-).

Nice to hear that there are more Abarth 1600's that are to be restored, I was earlier informed that only 7 pcs were still "alive", maybe this was only the coupes.

You refer to something on YouTube and I tried to find it, but I did not succed. Would you please post a link if you find it again ?

I also think it is nice to learn more about my car even if I have had it for a long time. As you most probarbly have noticed already it is not easy to find information about it.

Best regards,

/ Letzen
Letzen,
Search on youtube 'Barn find Portugal'.If it is not there,it has been removed.
Yes,great we are finding these cars again.I now can count 4 of the 7 coupes.None as nice as yours though.
Grant
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post #86 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 08:57 AM
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Wow - Very nice Abarths. I love the Michelotti styling, which reminds me of the Touring Flaminia GTs a bit with the long hood/ low roof line.

Thanks for sharing! You don't want to sell, right?

Mike

60 Citroen ID - 62 Lancia Appia Vignale Convertibile - 64 Giulia TI - 69 Porsche 911S Targa (Soft Window) - 72 Junior Z 1600
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post #87 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 11:49 AM
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Abarth 1600

Some very welcome news here!

I asked, and Grant has shared a photo of his chassis ID plate with me. I expect he may do so here as well at some point? Maybe not, as the car is apparently sold and maybe he will feel that this decision is up to the new owner? The plate is quite dirty and not easy to read precisely but ...

His car seems to fall into a run of perhaps ten(?) similar chassis that were supplied by Fiat to Abarth. Five of those chassis numbers appear on a somewhat cryptic listing kept by Abarth that I believe documented those cars which were given "Certificato d'Origine", necessary for the generation of Italian paperwork so the car could be registered and used in Italy. I consider those cars on that listing to be "Italian Market" cars. It may be that not all were actually sold in Italy? Regardless, all five of those cars were on this listing as being from May of 1961. At least, that is when they were listed as going to various Italian dealers. The actual completion date for some cars may have been slightly earlier?

Grant's car, although clearly part of that batch of perhaps ten cars, is not on the listing, so is likely to be "non-Italian Market" in my mind. It is also likely to date from a time period very close to May of 1961 but there could be some shift earlier or later depending on the priorities of the day. This is one place where collecting coachbuilding numbers may have particularly strong influences on some assumptions we might make. Allemano numbers appear to have been assigned linearly through time, so we can guess a bit as to when a project might have been initiated. It will not tell us when the car was completed or delivered. Maybe an Allemano roster would tell us more, but none has been found and shared ... thus far.

I am also very interested to learn of "Letzen" and his coupe. Very nice! I hope it does not need the trailer to be moved. This car would be a welcome addition to my research files as well. If it's chassis appears on the listing I have already compiled, I will be able to tell you something perhaps "new" to you about your car. Even if it does not yet appear, it will certainly tell us more about the overall production. Lentzen, I am also interested in the source for the production numbers you quoted. They may come from a listing similar to one which I have compiled but it would seem that you may have more? At the moment, I can identify 24 chassis numbers for what would seem to be similarly configured cars. Maybe yours is a 25th? As with your statement, not all of these are identified precisely as to coachbuilder or their configuration as coupe or cabriolet. There are many blanks to fill and I am sure that there are additional cars out there for which we do not yet know anything whatsoever. Just as Grant's car is completely new without any clue that it existed numerically ... except that it falls into the previously mentioned short run of cars, being now the 7th "find" among what may have been ten or more cars in that number range. And, there is a bit of confusion about one of the cars that is "known". What would life be without some confusion?

I have leads to three cabriolet/spider cars that are not yet identified by chassis number. These could be duplicates for numbers already known and may eventually fill in some histories. Some may also be completely "new" to a numerical listing.

When a bit more is shared, either openly or in private, I will be pleased to share a listing that will be more informative. There are some facts that I wish to check. I am in no rush to get this wrong!

Thanks again to all who have shared and thanks as well to those who will share in the future. More data is welcome. And needed! We have already come a long way from 1994, when I listed only two similar cars by chassis number. What will the next fifteen years' study reveal?

John
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post #88 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
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Abarth (Fiat-OSCA derived) 1600 Overview of what is known

My posting above may seem a bit too cryptic? Some additional perspective may be in order. Here is a quick synopsis highlighting a bit of what is identified so far in my listing about these cars by chassis number:

002385 1600 (possible confusion with 002389?)
002389 spyder 1600 (confusion possible with 002385?)

009951 1600
009952 coupe 1600
009953 A mere possibility at this point. Probably shouldn't even list it?
009954 1600
009955 spyder 1600 (some conflicting data has been shared)
009956 coupe 1600
009957 A mere possibility at this point. Probably shouldn't even list it?
009958 Edit: coupe 1600 ... New data (already, within mere minutes!) ... not on Abarth roster mentioned in posting above
009959 spyder 1600
009960 1600

010007 spyder 1600
010011 spyder 1600
010013 coupe 1600
010015 coupe 1600
010022 coupe 1600

(It would seem that many "possibilities" are implied by the number ranges shown above and below?)

011294 coupe 1600
011295 1600
011298 spyder 1600
011300 coupe 1600
011301 spyder 1600
011302 Edit 2: spyder 1600 (A car mentioned earlier on this thread. Data not yet entered in my listing. My bad!) (Not on Abarth roster.)
011303 spyder 1600

011579 1600
011581 coupe 1600 ("spyder" was crossed out on an Abarth listing)
011582 coupe 1600
011583 spyder 1600

Additional data about any of these cars, or any additional cars (even similarly numbered "Fiat-OSCA") would be very welcome! Naturally, if a "normal" Fiat-OSCA exists (or existed) with a chassis number listed above as a "possibility", it would not have been an "Abarth"! This would be worth knowing as well.

John
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Search keywords:
Abarth Tipo 225
Abarth 1600 der. Fiat OSCA
derivazione Fiat-OSCA
spider 1600
cabriolet 1600
coupé 1600
Fiat 118S
O.S.C.A.
Carrozzeria Allemano, Viotti, Giovanni Michelotti

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post #89 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:27 AM
 
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Similarity...

Dear John,

I will post my chassinumber in this thread so that you can see what you find about my car :-).

The number of 23 cars made I got from a guy that is very well oriented in the Abarth-world. I also read an article in a magazine named classiccars from UK about an Abarth 2300 Allemano Spider were it was written that my model was the first "bigger" Abarth that was made. In the article about the 2300 is was written "at the double price of an Jaguar E-type, you really wanted to want one" which referred to the price as new.

Regarding nice GT's that are similar in the design, I found some photos of a Ferrari 250 GT Pinin Farina and I think the similarity with my car is confusing, who copied who ?

See the link below and my attached photos.

Resultat av Googles bildsökning efter http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/FE-250PF-1637/images/P000Fade.jpg

Regards,


Fredrik
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post #90 of 128 (permalink) Old 08-11-2009, 04:01 PM
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Think this shot was made years ago somewhere in the BeNeLux.
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