Rescue Me--Flaminia PF on Ebay - Page 7 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #91 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-20-2014, 10:11 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
zagato67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post
I'm not discussing what you prefer, you could paint it in yellow fly with the american flag on the roof if you liked, but this doesn't mean to respect the originality, no offence.
The colours were available in the period 1965-70 and PF never made a two-tone coupè, so a client couldn't choose them. Lancia proposed the two-tone scheme for the sedan only (painted in the factory). If you want to tell me that somebody resprayed the car after the purchase because he liked it and you liked it too, i should agree with you, but the original colour of this coupè was the Argento Auteuil. You know it and we know it.
I'm pleased that we're not discussing what I prefer(!) and I am also pleased that I have rather better taste than to have chosen Giallo Fly with either the American or Italian flag as the roof color... :-)

I of course know that Argento Auteuil was the original color, as it was still that color when I purchased it in 2005 and retained that color until this restoration work began three years ago, a fact clearly stated in the auction catalog. Since these cars were quite expensive when new and often purchased by strong, powerful, successful individuals, it is unlikely that they would have been constrained by a list of 'available' colors. This is not a Fiat 600...

My personal feeling on color changes is that if the original color is important to the vehicle's history, i.e. it was photographed when new as a launch show car, period racer or concours winner, a good reason needs to be found to change it. Otherwise, the decision has to be made on the basis of if the color(s) are appropriate for the car and period. I think I made a good choice, if I say so myself!

[SIGPIC]Donald
'77 Lancia Scorpion
zagato67 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-20-2014, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
PG1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagato67 View Post
...it is unlikely that they would have been constrained by a list of 'available' colors. This is not a Fiat 600...

Otherwise, the decision has to be made on the basis of if the color(s) are appropriate for the car and period. I think I made a good choice, if I say so myself!
This is exactly the point where i can't agree with you, it's like if i would to paint an Aprilia sedan in metallic pale blue. It was an available colour? No.
It was an appropriate color for the car and the period? Maybe it was appropriate, but in the period list this colour wasn't.

The fact is that if Hoffman decided to repaint all the PF coupès in a two-tone scheme and this was attested by a document, i could say: ok Donald you chosen it because this was a US market car and not an Italian market car, but it did not happen.

Eventually the problem is: a member of an elegance concours jury 'ld put 0 point at the item "paint".

Sorry, i'm a taleban.
PG1964 is offline  
post #93 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-20-2014, 04:44 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
zagato67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post

Sorry, i'm a taleban.
Caro amico, noi devono la lascia qua... :-)

[SIGPIC]Donald
'77 Lancia Scorpion
zagato67 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #94 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-20-2014, 11:35 PM
Registered User
 
phila3885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by zagato67 View Post
I'm pleased that we're not discussing what I prefer(!) and I am also pleased that I have rather better taste than to have chosen Giallo Fly with either the American or Italian flag as the roof color... :-)

I of course know that Argento Auteuil was the original color, as it was still that color when I purchased it in 2005 and retained that color until this restoration work began three years ago, a fact clearly stated in the auction catalog. Since these cars were quite expensive when new and often purchased by strong, powerful, successful individuals, it is unlikely that they would have been constrained by a list of 'available' colors. This is not a Fiat 600...

My personal feeling on color changes is that if the original color is important to the vehicle's history, i.e. it was photographed when new as a launch show car, period racer or concours winner, a good reason needs to be found to change it. Otherwise, the decision has to be made on the basis of if the color(s) are appropriate for the car and period. I think I made a good choice, if I say so myself!
I think your reasoning is sound, and I'm (almost) as "originalista" as they come. It is (was?) YOUR car, and some colors just look better than others. I did the same with my car- showroom correct, but changed the color. Why? The color wasn't part of the intrinsic value of the car. I use this test: If it was 1958 and I was buying the car new, would I pick the original color? As long as it is a period-correct, I don't think you can go wrong. And even factory colors may not enhance a car. How many today REALLY prefer the Alfa red from the 50s/60s? How many bidders/buyers at auction say, hmmm that's a perfect, correct car, in a great period color, great price, but, I'll pass until another perfect, correct car like that comes along in the original factory color? Not many (none).

Phil
'62 Giulietta Sprint Normale
phila3885 is offline  
post #95 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-21-2014, 01:28 AM
Registered User
 
PG1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by phila3885 View Post
How many bidders/buyers at auction say, hmmm that's a perfect, correct car, in a great period color, great price, but, I'll pass until another perfect, correct car like that comes along in the original factory color? Not many (none).
I have a Picasso, period blue, in my flat, but i repainted it in purple because i liked it more. Would you buy it? It's always a Picasso, but i can't auction it saying it's in a period colour, restored by an expert and certified by another expert. This isn't true and this is a fraud especially.

What's my point? If you restore a car uncorrectly today, tomorrow many inexpert buyers 'll buy it believing in its originality. This is just the first step, the second is the replica and the third is the totally fake. How you illustrate a fake Stanguellini, for example, built as like as the original, painted in the period colour, with a donor unmatching engine, etc. etc. ?
So don't blame the famous Mr. Claus when he try to sell here his work of manual art....

Last edited by PG1964; 01-21-2014 at 01:33 AM.
PG1964 is offline  
post #96 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-21-2014, 05:30 AM
Registered User
 
divotandtralee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cape Cod, MAssachusetts
Posts: 7,232
I've bit my tongue long enough and please take this as tavern talk.....A production car built for masses not particularly "strong and powerful" ( I have read every word) is not a Picasso canvas. I don't think it was desecrated and if some think so, it won't be the last, and yet make way over the market and leave at least two people happy. There is an interpretation behind every set of eyes and in this case value was not compromised to at least one buyer.
divotandtralee is offline  
post #97 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-21-2014, 11:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Maybe this Flaminia PF Coupe has beaten the ww price record because of its non original bi color scheme ?!? I might paint my Flaminia PF Coupe in a rainbow color i might get 7 times the price of it !!!
PAPILINO is offline  
post #98 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 04:51 AM
Registered User
 
PG1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by divotandtralee View Post
A production car built for masses not particularly "strong and powerful" ( I have read every word) is not a Picasso canvas.
Sorry, but a Flaminia PF isn't a car built for masses, maybe you wanted to say a Fiat 500....
PG1964 is offline  
post #99 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 05:39 AM
Registered User
 
divotandtralee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cape Cod, MAssachusetts
Posts: 7,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post
Sorry, but a Flaminia PF isn't a car built for masses, maybe you wanted to say a Fiat 500....
You are right it. Masses was a poor choice of words..Will you accept mass produced?
divotandtralee is offline  
post #100 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 01:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post
I'm not discussing what you prefer, you could paint it in yellow fly with the american flag on the roof if you liked.
Ask and you shall receive, a two-tone yellow(ish) PF Flaminia coupe:

http://www.autoscout24.eu/Details.as...000&asrc=st|fs

No idea if this coupe is original...
Special-K is offline  
post #101 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 02:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 143
The short answer is no. The long answer is XXXX no, who would do something so XXXXXXX ugly, and why?
B24Spider is offline  
post #102 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 08:22 AM
Registered User
 
PG1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by divotandtralee View Post
You are right it. Masses was a poor choice of words..Will you accept mass produced?
Neither: 5336 cars produced in 8 years...
PG1964 is offline  
post #103 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 08:26 AM
Registered User
 
PG1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Special-K View Post
Ask and you shall receive, a two-tone yellow(ish) PF Flaminia coupe:

http://www.autoscout24.eu/Details.as...000&asrc=st|fs

No idea if this coupe is original...
That car belonged to a viva-lancia.com forum user. When the coachwork made that mess he decided to sell it. The beige should have been Ivory...
PG1964 is offline  
post #104 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 08:42 AM
Registered User
 
divotandtralee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cape Cod, MAssachusetts
Posts: 7,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post
Neither: 5336 cars produced in 8 years...
I surrender.. I can't help it if they were slow
divotandtralee is offline  
post #105 of 114 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 11:53 PM
Registered User
 
1,6 HF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West Hollywood, CA
Posts: 3,964
The point remains this is a series production model--not analogous to a unique painting.

Ed
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1,6 HF
1,6 HF is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome